For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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#1589467
Air Ambulances probably aren't the best target for this, providing as they do a very valuable service, but no doubt based on those figures some people involved in 'governance' make a very comfortable living out of it.

"Most charities exist primarily to provide a purpose and an income for those that run them."

I can't remember where I heard that, but it seems like a good line.
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1589474
defcribed wrote:
"Most charities exist primarily to provide a purpose and an income for those that run them."

I can't remember where I heard that, but it seems like a good line.


That is an interesting assertion. It is certainly the case that some charities are run on that basis - the deeply dodgy "Children's Air Ambulance" is one such, and two well known and deeply irritating organisations thus are 38degrees and changedotorg - the petition "charities" creating good livings for some off the misguided good intentions of many thousands of online social justice warriors.

But I wonder, and don't know what the proportions really look like - RNLI is an organisation that most of us would regard as primarily worthy and honestly run, and there are many educational and social change charities that are fundamentally amateur and worthy.

Basically, I wonder about "most" and what the real proportions look like?

I am obviously not the first person to ask this question - googling, I found an interesting take on it from Channel 4 https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... ood-causes

G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer on Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1589479
It is certainly an issue in some cases.

The important thing is to understand what they are about and whether they actually need to run as essentially a not for profit business. That will inevitably change the overhead structure and in some cases it's a sensible model.

The only way a charity can put 100% of its income to its purpose is if it is run 100% by volunteers and has zero expenses. I don't know any like that not even the one I'm chairman of!

If it runs as a business it will need to pay some professionals and it may be penny wise pound foolish to scrimp on salaries. It's a matter of judgement to establish whether a highly paid senior staff member will be justified by efficiency in operations and income generation. Some are, but there are some well publicised cases where that has gone horribly wrong.

It's a matter for the vigilance of Trustees who are rarely professionals in the field themselves, so not an easy issue to resolve.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1589567
Pete L wrote:What do you reckon a reasonable ratio of expenses to charitable output is? For one of our local hospice lottery charities it's 2:1. So the hospice got my cash directly.


To be fair it's hard to generalise so you'd need to understand the set up. A reasonable rule of thumb might be that if overheads exceed around 25% of turnover then there are questions to be asked and answered.
By cockney steve
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1589906
*Devil's Advocate.* Arguably, if a Lottery is distributing 2/3 of income as prizes and administration and the "players" are happy with the prize-level, then the charity is benefiting by , hopefully, that 1/3 of turnover.

33% "profit" is a huge nett margin. Commercially, 5 % is excellent.
The problem with charities, is the huge wedge skimmed -off in fees to well (over?) -paid leeches who don't necessarily offer the best return to the charity.
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By Flintstone
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1589914
A few years ago at a school reunion an ex-classmate described himself as a consultant charity fundraiser or some such.

My (initially) tongue-in-cheek comment about him being a super chugger seemed to touch a nerve, he stayed away from me for the rest of the evening.

:scratch:
cockney steve liked this
#1591914
cockney steve wrote:33% "profit" is a huge nett margin. Commercially, 5 % is excellent.


What utter borrocks.

1%? 5%? 33%? all depends on the industry/service. There is no "commercially" standard net profit margin that could be defined as excellent or otherwise. 5% net profit for a low volume, high margin businesses could be a disaster!
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
#1591923
the problem with the word charity, is that the general public assume all working for it do it for nothing. If all you need is a bunch of Grandmothers to knit stuff to sell at the local Church events, that is extremely possible.

However, if you are trying to run something like the RNLI or an Air Ambulance, you will need professional staff. In the same way the Air Ambulances employ professional pilots, the RNLI employ professional skippers and engineers. But the public assume all are charitable volunteers. That has to follow up the chain as well if you want the charity to succeed both financially and if the service it provides needs to be on demand.

I agree that maybe at the top, there maybe some people that are higher valued than is necessary, but maybe their presence attracts corporate sponsors. If I ran an Air Ambulance Charity, I'd happily employ an executive on a £1M salary if he generated £5M in corporate sponsorship that would otherwise be inaccessible.

The RNLI has had over 200 years to evolve into what it is today, if Air Ambulances want to achieve the same level of success, well then they should consider having a chat with Prince William again, get him to have a word with his Gran to get Royal approval, and combine to form the RNAAI, Royal National Air Ambulance Institution, and go big.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1591958
romille wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-43104314

Yet another selfish idiot!


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-43110194

The woman, from Tunstall, was arrested on suspicion of public order offences and remains in police custody.

Mike Duggan, operational manager from the West Midlands Ambulance Service, said the paramedics also received verbal abuse as well as the note.

"This is not solely about the note," Staffordshire Police said, "the arrest related to matters of verbal abuse."
#1592022
Even if it was on private ground or an allocated parking space there is no need to get irate and abusive. I am sure the ambulance staff did everything they could to expedite their departure to wherever the patient needed to go.
#1592025
Am I being singled out? I am getting quite annoyed by the fact that almost every day I have stuffed through my door a flacid plastic envelope that apparently contains a plastic bag into which I am urged to place old clothing to the benefit of an air ambulance somewhere.

They pile up in a small mountain in the hall. I mean I am not very hard on clothing at the best of time, but I am unlikely to want to discard clothing three or four times a week, every week.

Now we are being discouraged from using plastic bags to bring home the groceries and then line the bin with, when is some authority going to discourage these 'charity' collectors from distributing thousands of unwanted and unasked for bags every day?

:sunny: [Lightbulb moment] They are probably big enough to line the kitchen bin

Rob P
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
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