For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By Paultheparaglider
#1590441
A conundrum for me with the whole EU process from an economic perspective is that it produces flows from the poorer countries to the richer countries. I believe the Euro both facilitates and amplifies this. It results in an effective transfer of political power from the poorer countries to the richer countries, who are then often left relying on the economic largesse of the politicians from the richer countries.

As a richer country, the UK benefits from the flow of labour from poorer countries to the UK, and as people who immigrate tend to by nature be highly motivated, we end up with some of the cream of the poorer countries. This does, though, act to deplete some of the best resources of the poorer countries, which results in them being even weaker. To some extent, though, there are financial flows back to those countries, and a number of immigrants do repatriate themselves and take much of their newly found wealth back with them.

A similar thing happens within the UK, where the flows move to the south east, and the rest of the country is then cap in hand to London.

Why I find this a conundrum is because, although these flows appear largely positive for us on the face of it, they have also had a more unwelcome impact of depressing overall labour rates in many, if not most, occupations at, largely, the expense of our middle classes. The net effect is that we are seeing a massive transfer of real wealth and power to a very small and privileged elite.

Good if you are prepared to get on your bike, but bad for the majority that don't want to move.

It is unreasonable to blame just the EU for this when the same issue is happening within our own country, but the resulting effects are divisive, and revolutions have started over less.

We live in interesting times.
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By Sooty25
#1590485
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:Those wicked foreigners again!



If by that to you mean, would I prefer to see British territorial waters fished by British owned boats, with British crews, landing their catch in British ports, the answer is YES.
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1590490
Sooty25 wrote:
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:Those wicked foreigners again!



If by that to you mean, would I prefer to see British territorial waters fished by British owned boats, with British crews, landing their catch in British ports, the answer is YES.

Which they can then export to the EU at a healthy profit :D

G
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By Sooty25
#1590492
Oh, most of the export you mentioned previously, is species not commonly eaten in the UK, it isn't exported rather than supply to home markets, it is exported because there is no home market for it.
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By nallen
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1590496
If you want to export fresh fish, it seems pretty dumb to me to land them in the UK and then freight them to the continent...
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1590503
Not really.

If you land at the nearest port, the fish carries on at 40+mph in a refrigerated lorry with a single driver whilst the boat gets productively back out to sea catching more fish instead of chugging down to France or Spain at 15mph if it's lucky - tying up the boat and crew all the way.

G
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1590508
Sooty25 wrote:Oh, most of the export you mentioned previously, is species not commonly eaten in the UK, it isn't exported rather than supply to home markets, it is exported because there is no home market for it.

To a fair extent isn't this a chicken and egg thing?

Why work at creating a home market when there is already a healthy export market / we have to export because there's no home market / rinse and repeat.

G
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By kanga
#1590518
Leodisflyer wrote:..

Around here fish=haddock and cod is a scavenger fish that's shipped off to be eaten elsewhere -..


whereas in Newfoundland 'fish'=cod, and all other types must be specified, noun or verb, eg "we're going trouting at the weekend" :)

[.. and outsiders', especially Spanish, boats were blamed for decimating the Grand Banks cod stocks. I recall Cornish fishing boats, with same resentments, flying maple leaf flags in sympathy. Canadian (ie, distant Ottawa) Government conservation rules meant that Newfoundlanders were not even allowed to go out in open dories with hand-held 'long lines'. This devastated both the economies and the diets of many smaller 'outports'. However, stocks have at last started to improve, and the Province has grown more prosperous on the back of other industries such as mining, hydro-electric, and on- and off-shore oil and gas; along with cruise ship visits]
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By Sooty25
#1590558
nallen wrote:If you want to export fresh fish, it seems pretty dumb to me to land them in the UK and then freight them to the continent...


so a fishing boat does a 5 day trip at sea, how fresh is the fish caught on day one? Only freezer ships freeze at sea, all the rest is kept under ice. White fish doesn't cook best the day its caught.
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By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1590583
nallen wrote:If you want to export fresh fish, it seems pretty dumb to me to land them in the UK and then freight them to the continent...


My Ex-wife used to work for a Fish exporting company. There are an awful lot of Artics driving from Scotland to France, Italy and Spain every day with fish aboard. ALL these trucks are French or Spanish registered because the road taxes for trucks are cheaper there than in the UK, regardless of if the company is a British, French or Spanish company. Buy certain fish in France or Spain and there is a 50% chance it is UK landed fish. And as for supermarkets, some of their working business practices as the dominant retailers of perishable goods are bordering on the criminal, and to this day I try to avoid a couple of the chains unless absolutely necessary... :naughty:

Regards, SD..
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By Sooty25
#1590628
skydriller wrote:
nallen wrote:If you want to export fresh fish, it seems pretty dumb to me to land them in the UK and then freight them to the continent...


My Ex-wife used to work for a Fish exporting company. There are an awful lot of Artics driving from Scotland to France, Italy and Spain every day with fish aboard. ALL these trucks are French or Spanish registered because the road taxes for trucks are cheaper there than in the UK, regardless of if the company is a British, French or Spanish company. Buy certain fish in France or Spain and there is a 50% chance it is UK landed fish. And as for supermarkets, some of their working business practices as the dominant retailers of perishable goods are bordering on the criminal, and to this day I try to avoid a couple of the chains unless absolutely necessary... :naughty:

Regards, SD..


I'm guessing Langoustines (Dublin Bay Prawn in Scottish) to Brittany was amongst them, served in restaurants as locally caught, which some are!

As for the trucks, see the pothole thread.

As for the supermarkets, well, you can't blame the merchants for exporting rather than selling into the supermarkets. A farmer I know was stitched up by one supermarket chain over the supply of eggs, "every little helped" them, not the farmer.
By cockney steve
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1590646
A back-issue of " The Fish-Friers Review, (journal of the NFFF ) had an in- depth article, reprinted from an earlier-issue in the early 1900's. Newfoundland Cod was reported as so abundant, "you could walk on it".. Indeed, the stocks were raped to the point of extinction, until the belated conservation laws were enacted.
We buy a lot of Norwegian and Icelandic Cod in UK. Iceland's economy is driven by fishing. Freezer-trawlers work offshore-deep water. From the time the catch hits the deck it is sorted, cleaned/ boned / filleted, optionally, skinned , graded, packed and frozen (usually 3 x 20 lb. cartons in a 60 Lb . case ) Unlike ordinary trawlers, they do not accommodate large volumes of wet fish.....the frozen blocks also make for a more stable vessel in inclement weather. Deck to Hold, less than 12 hours, freshness locked-in.

An ordinary deep-sea boat will pack the catch into plastic crates, with crushed-ice that they take with them. Between catches, they'll gut and bone. the several-day return from the fishing- grounds is also used , When the boat reaches Harbour, the ready-sorted crates are Lotted and set out in the Auction shed....auctioned, loaded (train, lorry ) and arrive et the distributor , Dark -o- clock.....then onto local delivery- vehicles.

From the above, you'll realise that "fresh" fish, can be a week old....even inshore, day-boat caught is invariably "yesterday's catch."

Here endeth the lesson. :pirat:
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