For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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#1588662
Came off a roundabout on the A11 with an unidentified saloon car right in my boot, I unleashed every one of my 206 horses and he stayed there, pulled into the inside lane and the Tesla just powered off towards the horizon. They really are quick!

Rob P
Colonel Panic liked this
#1588665
malcolmfrost wrote:The Tesla (sorry to bang on about them but they are the big disrupters) model is direct sales, so no franchise dealers. They have their own service centres, and AFAIK the only regular servicing is tyre rotation, which are the primary consumables.
You’re right about government revenue though, road pricing will be the obvious way to go, I suspect at least at the beginning EV will have a preferential rate.

It's way too early to draw any conclusions from the Tesla model, however I think it presently supports my argument. The initial purchase price is significantly higher than other vehicles and the Company continues to haemorrhage money. The model is far from being workable for manufacturer and consumers. Volume manufacturing and improvements in technology will have to bring massive unit cost savings for it to work.

Quite agree Johnm, the electric car is going to be a revolution in the industry causing it to change beyond recognition, in ways we don't yet know.
#1588674
We've mentioned Tesla and LEAF and even i3 (which as it has an engine (if only to charge the battery) doesn't count. What about Renault Zoe?

When I last looked the lease battery made in uneconomic for me, but other than that it seems to be the cheapest way into driving a pure EV.

Off at a tangent, did I read that Mercedes are experimenting with H2 cells? The "Fully charged" video (the one with the S curve) posted earlier by Jonathan B predicted that they will have no future.

I certainly agree with Misc's point that things (and not just car manufacture/servicing) will be disrupted in ways that we haven't yet thought of.
#1588704
There was an interesting programme a couple of weeks back about a house in Liverpool through the ages, and one of the occupants was a saddler. They had a shop in the main shopping street around the turn of the century, but 10 years later the business was in decline due to the motor car and cheap imports for Lancashire where women did the stitching for a tenth of the price! They failed to diversify and the business died,
The other benefit of EVs is that it will hopefully leave more oil for industries that really need it like airlines!!
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1588709
PaulB wrote:We've mentioned Tesla and LEAF and even i3 (which as it has an engine (if only to charge the battery) doesn't count. What about Renault Zoe?

Status - Zoe is aiming at the market for 2nd car around town - it isn't too flashy. They are aiming at a different demographic. Think top of the range Clio.
It is fast enough for normal journeys, but the software has limited the power output so it doesn't feel blistering quick / no wheel spin. Comfy enough inside (I test drive one in Paris a year or so ago).

I also don't like the battery lease option - however you can buy the battery outright too (so no lease) for about 5k extra. I suppose that was good for early adopters to de-risk their purchase. A fair number with the smaller batteries, which need the lease, are now on the second hand market. Very few in which the battery was bought outright.
By avtur3
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1588713
riverrock wrote:Status - Zoe is aiming at the market for 2nd car around town - it isn't too flashy. They are aiming at a different demographic. Think top of the range Clio.
It is fast enough for normal journeys, but the software has limited the power output so it doesn't feel blistering quick / no wheel spin. Comfy enough inside (I test drive one in Paris a year or so ago).

I also don't like the battery lease option - however you can buy the battery outright too (so no lease) for about 5k extra. I suppose that was good for early adopters to de-risk their purchase. A fair number with the smaller batteries, which need the lease, are now on the second hand market. Very few in which the battery was bought outright.


I've been following a video blog produced by a guy who has just returned a Leaf after 4 years and is awaiting the arrival of a Zoe. He posted extensively about test driving the Zoe (7-8 day and 800+ miles) before he committed to buying it. He has bought a new Zoe 40 including battery purchase for £16k, the car has a genuine winter range of 150 miles, which is well detailed in his blogging.

To me I'd say that a range of 150 miles is getting quite respectable, particularly for that type of car (small hatch/urban car) and at the price I'm sure it will tempt more people over to the dark side. Also, the price includes installation of a home fast charger. The car averages 3.9 - 4.0 miles per kWh, that's quiet inexpensive, certainly less than 4p mile on a domestic tariff and potentially less than that.
#1588714
malcolmfrost wrote:There was an interesting programme a couple of weeks back about a house in Liverpool through the ages, and one of the occupants was a saddler. They had a shop in the main shopping street around the turn of the century, but 10 years later the business was in decline due to the motor car and cheap imports for Lancashire where women did the stitching for a tenth of the price! They failed to diversify and the business died,
The other benefit of EVs is that it will hopefully leave more oil for industries that really need it like airlines!!

My recollection is that they were actually very astute in competing with the employers' of the poorly paid women by going 'niche' and doing very well. As for their ultimate fate, well it came to most saddlers based on supply and demand.

PaulB wrote:We've mentioned Tesla and LEAF and even i3 (which as it has an engine (if only to charge the battery) doesn't count. What about Renault Zoe?

When I last looked the lease battery made in uneconomic for me, but other than that it seems to be the cheapest way into driving a pure EV.

You lot are treading thin ice continuing to consider the costs of running EVs. :shock: :lol:

Just go drive them all, Paul, and buy what you like best to drive! Simple. :D
#1588718
Internal combustion engines depended on the development of effective oil extraction, refinement and delivery. Without that we’d be using coal and steam.

Similarly, electric cars will depend on the development of non-fossil electricity generation and storage. That’s on its way. (Hydrogen requires an energy source to create the electricity to crack it from water, so faces the same issues).

Revenue will switch from fuel tax to road charging using GPS/ANPR data. I reckon 10 years to make the switch. Maybe an industry to convert HGVs from ICE to electric will find a role.

Add in autonomous vehicles, for use by those who currently run old cars, and the whole market could be revolutionised.

Men with beards and oil under their fingernails will still have toys, but will be a rare sight outside of private roads
#1588719
Rob P wrote:Came off a roundabout on the A11 with an unidentified saloon car right in my boot, I unleashed every one of my 206 horses and he stayed there, pulled into the inside lane and the Tesla just powered off towards the horizon. They really are quick!

Rob P

The USAF use them as chase cars for the U2 at Fairford.

Very impressive acceleration.
Rob P liked this
#1588775
Miscellaneous wrote:Just go drive them all, Paul, and buy what you like best to drive! Simple. :D


For some of us, money is a factor.... (otherwise I'd probably have got a Tesla S by now.)
#1588823
AndyR wrote:Likewise. Mrs R has today bought a (nearly) new petrol engined car. There is simply not the choice of EV available to the majority of the motoring public. They are just too expensive.



This is true, but going back 8 or so pages to the "Fully Charged" video, this is predicted[1] change over the next 2-3 years.\

[1] but we all know what happens to predictions!
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