[Genghis the Engineer]

For the police to believe you or not, for the CPS to decide that their prosecution threshold is passed, for you to have to admit you have been abused etc etc...

For the assailant to probably get off 'scott free' and your life to be ruined, in the case of the Hollywood or business cases, their careers ruined and lives in tatters?

Of course - these issues are far from trivial, simple. No right minded person should accept that anybody who has committed rape, or any other variation of deliberate and clearly unwanted sexual advances should go uncorrected.

But, every country has some form of criminal justice system. Everywhere has mechanisms to report a crime, for people trained to do so to investigate and test the evidence of that crime, and for people to be punished for those crimes, IF they have been found guilty.


And of course those systems are fallible. Some guilty people go free, some people are unjustly punished - but nonetheless those systems are the least worst systems that exist and all of us if we believe we've witnessed or been victims of a crime. A fundamental of all of those systems is that they weigh evidence and form a conclusion before issuing punishment.

And this is what's wrong with what I'm seeing in the media and social media at the moment. The basic route seems to be:-

(1) Accuse
(2) Amplify
(3) Punish
(4) Pause for reflection.

Sorry, it's wrong, deeply wrong.

I'm not saying that Harvey Weinstein and people in similar positions aren't *potentially* guilty of the crimes they're accused of. I am saying that they should be charged, tried by some rational mechanism, then punished. If they're guilty and it turns out this was known to many people, then those people who conspired to conceal this should get the same treatment.

Given the number of accusations, some appropriate authority should be jumping on this, gathering evidence, and moving as fast as is reasonably possible without risking a major miscarriage of justice. It would be nice to think that this is happening, but at-least in the media I follow I've seen very little evidence of it.

And if they are found to be "not guilty", that should be visible to everybody.

Thanks for the link to the article, I'll read with interest.

G

[Flyin'Dutch']

But, every country has some form of criminal justice system. Everywhere has mechanisms to report a crime, for people trained to do so to investigate and test the evidence of that crime, and for people to be punished for those crimes, IF they have been found guilty.

One of the cases that HW has been accused off is where he went into a colleague's hotel room at night and masturbated in front of her.

I think we will both agree that this is unacceptable and deplorable behaviour.

Unless that behaviour is videoed at the time it will be virtually impossible to prove this has ever happened, let alone that it was non-consensual.

Should a case have been brought it would almost certainly not have lead to a conviction.

So justice done?

I am no fan of trial by (social) media but think that the recent publicity has stopped some people behaving in a deplorable way and has encouraged abused people to come out and speak of their experiences.

It also will lead to some others to modify their behaviour for the better.

I somehow doubt that it will be cause the extinction of the human race on account of people attracted to each other not able to interact in a mutually acceptable and agreeable manner.

[Flyingfemme]

The lines in these cases are very difficult to draw and, by keeping secrets, many victims are co-operating to create their own victimhood as well as allow the perpetrator to carry on.
Suppose we were talking about a beating, instead of coercion to have sex? Would anyone suggest that a victim should not report it to the authorities? Would anyone understand why you wouldn't want it reported and investigated? Would anyone think less of the victim because they had been attacked? Is this sort of crime worse than having your leg broken or acid thrown in your face?
Surely by "agreeing" under pressure to do certain things, the victim could be considered to have "consented"? If your career is more important than your self respect then there is little that anyone can actually do to help. "Bargains" will always be struck. By saying no and leaving you nip it in the bud. Please be clear that I am not talking about any sort of physical assault where there is likely to be very clear evidence that consent was never given..........
I don't think that the law is ever going to be able to do much about this sort of thing because there is rarely any hard evidence to back up a case - society will have to make it beyond the pale. As it has with smoking over babies and drink driving.

[Flyin'Dutch']

The lines in these cases are very difficult to draw and, by keeping secrets, many victims are co-operating to create their own victimhood as well as allow the perpetrator to carry on.
Suppose we were talking about a beating, instead of coercion to have sex? Would anyone suggest that a victim should not report it to the authorities? Would anyone understand why you wouldn't want it reported and investigated? .

There are a gazillion reasons why victims of various crimes do not come forward.

None of those is is to cooperate to create victimhood or to help the perpetrator.

More like trying to cope, trying to limit damage and survive.

Much of it has to do with how our brains are hard-wired and try to cope with dreadful facts and experiences.

[Chris Martyr]

Post edited

[The Admin Team]

A sexual innuendo in a thread about inappropriate sexual behaviour is inappropriate.

[Rob P]

But Catherine says it's OK

[Korenwolf]

I see that Silvio Berlusconi has waded in now; saying that it's only natural for women to be hit on by men, although he did admit that he was no expert in the field because he was always being chased by women and rarely had to do the wooing.......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01 ... erlusconi/

[matthew_w100]

And today's story concerns the jailing of newsreader Emily Maitlis' long term stalker, a man who has caused her untold worry and stress.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42705126

So completely inevitable that the BBC should chose to decorate the piece with a photo of Emily looking like she is trailing a soft-porn film, and not one of her looking like a newsreader.

[skydriller]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42705126

So completely inevitable that the BBC should chose to decorate the piece with a photo of Emily looking like she is trailing a soft-porn film, and not one of her looking like a newsreader.

[Miscellaneous]

So completely inevitable that the BBC should chose to decorate the piece with a photo of Emily looking like she is trailing a soft-porn film, and not one of her looking like a newsreader.

How ironically offensive.

[PaulB]

And today's story concerns the jailing of newsreader Emily Maitlis' long term stalker, a man who has caused her untold worry and stress.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42705126

So completely inevitable that the BBC should chose to decorate the piece with a photo of Emily looking like she is trailing a soft-porn film, and not one of her looking like a newsreader.

Looked like just a stock photo to me.

[kanga]

And today's story concerns the jailing of newsreader Emily Maitlis' long term stalker, a man who has caused her untold worry and stress....

What I found disturbing was that on the (BBC news site) review of the front pages, most of the tabloids had the story on it, but showed the picture of the female victim but (with one exception, smaller picture) not the convicted male perpetrator.

[Korenwolf]

And just when you thought it had gone all quiet, along comes the redoubtable BB...

Brigitte Bardot: sexual harassment protesters are 'hypocritical' and 'ridiculous'

She says she didn't mind being told that she was pretty and had a nice bum...

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/j ... ridiculous

[Spooky]

And today's story concerns the jailing of newsreader Emily Maitlis' long term stalker, a man who has caused her untold worry and stress.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42705126

So completely inevitable that the BBC should chose to decorate the piece with a photo of Emily looking like she is trailing a soft-porn film, and not one of her looking like a newsreader.

Must be very soft porn...