For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
By squawking 7700
#1582336
I don't believe it.......with an hour to spare I thought I'd submit my tax return only to find HMRC's website 'experiencing technical problems'.

Roll on next week when I've got a VAT quarter return to do.......
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By kanga
#1582377
Not sure why this should be surprising. They are part of Treasury, and under Treasury policy since '80s, (nearly) all Departments of Central UK Government have to outsource all IT development and support rather than employing their own people who might be allowed to talk to real employees and users. The winning bidders, again under Treasury rules, are those whose tenders appear to be lowest cost, whatever their track record (on delivery, cost, user satisfaction) on previous Government IT projects. It is called 'efficiency'.. :roll:
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By cockney steve
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1582557
A long journey , marked by the wreckage of numerous failed IT projects and mountains of smouldering cash-ashes, has made Whitehall realise they're out of their depth. Unfortunately, their tendering and approval systems ensure that the most able do not get the contract. Many a foul-up still slips through...Competent people in the industry see the train-wreck coming, but they've no voice for their concerns.

NHS central records? centralised regional fire-service? Bowman radios for the Army?.....just off the top of my head.
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By JoeC
#1582559
The funny thing is that people think it's just the public sector. The private sector are just as bad but they have different levels of scrutiny and no-one gets promoted by pointing out failures- unlike those politically/economically motivated in their oh so clever criticism of public sector failings. Many large scale public sector projects that go tits up can be traced back to private sector partners...

For balance, GNER being a loss-making basket case in private hands made £1bn for the treasury when given back to public ownership.
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By PaulB
#1582583
cockney steve wrote:Unfortunately, their tendering and approval systems ensure that the most able do not get the contract.


As @kanga says, they must award the contract to the lowest price bidder .

NHS central records?


Which NHS centralised records would these be?
By squawking 7700
#1582634
I think it was down most of yesterday and yes, while I had some time I thought I'd submit my tax return, the deadline for submission is 31st Jan.

NHS 'central' records seems OK to me - hospital consultant can see my GP's entries/tests etc. and vice versa, which is how it should be.

Of some concern, to me personally, at the moment re. public/private 'interaction' is the financial state of Carillion - they undertake MoD infrastructure support (think Marham upgrade for JSF) and I supply one of their contractors.
By PaulB
#1582649
squawking 7700 wrote:NHS 'central' records seems OK to me - hospital consultant can see my GP's entries/tests etc. and vice versa, which is how it should be.


What about (for example) "Virgin Healthcare" [other private companies operating NHS services are available]?
By cockney steve
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1582676
AIUI Billions were spent, trying to computerise and make the whole of UK's health records available instantly,from anywhere by any healthcare professional. back then, it couldn't be done and the scheme was quietly buried.
The fire-service scheme would have routed all fire-calls to 2 or 3 National call-centres, which would know where all available equipment was placed and where the most suitable was located (spot the fatal flaw! ) there are unused, unlettable specialised empty buildings that taxpayers are committed to paying a very long rental lease on, because someone didn't think it through.....Afire? send a fire appliance....the experienced professional firefighters will accurately assess what, if any, further resources are needed. likewise, a RTA, or a kid with their head caught in the railings.
Re- the "cheapest"....no, the cheapest of the approved group who are allowed to tender!
Several employees of an approved organisation, were so appalled by the incompetence, they started their own Contracting- business.....took several years before they jumped through all the hoops and became able to be approved....then they had to sort out chaos left by their former employers, who were still winning work, because the startup was considered "too small" to bid for the contracts. (but far more competent and able to get it right first time!) :roll:
By PaulB
#1582679
cockney steve wrote:AIUI Billions were spent, trying to computerise and make the whole of UK's health records available instantly,from anywhere by any healthcare professional. back then, it couldn't be done and the scheme was quietly buried.


Are you talking about "The National Programme for IT"? Not sure it was ever meant to do what you say as that would have required either a single centralised system (and the programme relied on separate private companies contracted for discrete geographical areas) or interoperability between the said companies' competing commercial systems. I don't recall that being part of it, but yes, as you say, billions was wasted.
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By Pete L
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1582733
I don't recall HMRC IT being a paragon of public service and project management virtue even when the projects were inhouse and only the computers came from ICL.
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By kanga
#1582739
Pete L wrote:I don't recall HMRC IT being a paragon of public service and project management virtue even when the projects were inhouse and only the computers came from ICL.



('the only computers' meant ?)

The policy ('60s, but with legacy which may have lasted much longer) that the only computers which could be bought with taxpayers' money were to be ICL was also, of course, a policy imposed by Ministers, not one which might have been welcomed by IT-literate in-house staff, of whom in that era there were not many (in public nor private sectors) .. :roll:

It may have been just as damaging as the '80s one when, by equally rigid policy from Ministers, Departments were not allowed to train, employ nor retain as such, nor consult over the technicalities of projects, any in-house staff who were IT-literate, and (almost) all projects had to be outsourced. Unsurprisingly, this led then to a huge exodus to the private sector of such staff of all grades and experience. In turn, this later ('90s, 00s) led to a dearth of senior staff with such knowledge when bidders for new large IT projects had to be chosen (and the technical competence of their bids evaluated), and the projects overseen. As a result, Treasury looked only at the (apparent) 'bottom line'.

[I was lucky to start my IT 'career' at one of the few exceptions. The Institute of Theoretical Astronomy at Cambridge had an IBM360, when all the other (very few!) Cambridge mainframes were ICL by the policy. It was rumoured that Fred Hoyle has threatened to emigrate if he could not have the same hardware as his US colleagues were using :) ]