For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1576087
Maybe they should be exiled to an island somewhere. I don't think Australia want them any more than we do though, so we'll have to find somewhere else.
By romille
#1576088
johnm wrote:Martyrs are certainly more powerful than prisoners and expecting any sort of rational behaviour from terrorists is a bit pointless.:roll:


Not sure I agree as whilst Mr Sands was alive and on hunger strike there were reports from outside the Maze on every news bulletin, once he expired and was buried the whole news frenzy went away and he became old news. He was probably forgotten by the majority of the population on both sides of the political divide, who had their daily lives to get on with. Today the media thing is even more of an issue than it was in the 80's, with Twitter, Faceache and things trending, so the influencene of these people from behind bars is constantly to the fore.
Last edited by romille on Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:19 am, edited 4 times in total.
By romille
#1576089
Paul_Sengupta wrote:Maybe they should be exiled to an island somewhere. I don't think Australia want them any more than we do though, so we'll have to find somewhere else.


Great idea, how about a nice remote place like South Georgia.
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By nallen
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1576091
romille wrote:Not sure I agree as whilst Mr Sands was alive and on hunger strike there were reports from outside the Maze on every news bulletin, once he expired and was buried the whole news frenzy went away and he became old news. He was probably forgotten by the majority of the population on both sides of the political divide, who had their daily lives to get on with.


Apart from the huge mural of him that adorns the Falls Road to this day, you mean, not to mention the streets named after him, etc., etc.
By romille
#1576092
nallen wrote:Apart from the huge mural of him that adorns the Falls Road to this day, you mean, not to mention the streets named after him, etc., etc.


The population of the Fall Road area is rather inconsequential in the overall scheme of things and will hardly keep the man in the minds of most of the population. In a way your comment proves my point, in that if Mr Sands had been shot and killed rather than arrested and imprisoned in the "H" blocks he would just have been another dead terrorist. By putting him in prison, allowing him to become an MP and starving himself to death he becomes Irish Republican martyr and gets a mural and streets named after him.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1576099
Well no not really.

He was ALWAYS going to be a martyr on the Falls Rd. To the rest of us he was newsworthy because of his outlandish behaviour, in the same way that Farage and others on the political fringe are newsworthy, but ultimately he and others, like McGuiness and Adams, came to realise that they stood a better chance of achieving their aims through relatively civilised means as the terrorist approach was doomed to failure because no-one was prepared to be terrorised.
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By Lindsayp
#1576100
I m looking for someone to enlighten me on this if I am wrong, but if said IS fighters are caught and to be processed under the UK law, why can they not be charged with Treason, as they are openly intending to destroy the UK social and legal system. to overthrow it and declare a Caliphate? Is Treason still on the statutes and is the penalty still death? Surely that is appropriate even if it plays to their supposed desire for martyrdom?
By romille
#1576101
johnm wrote:Well no not really.

He was ALWAYS going to be a martyr on the Falls Rd. To the rest of us he was newsworthy because of his outlandish behaviour, in the same way that Farage and others on the political fringe are newsworthy, but ultimately he and others, like McGuiness and Adams, came to realise that they stood a better chance of achieving their aims through relatively civilised means as the terrorist approach was doomed to failure because no-one was prepared to be terrorised.


There is just no comparison between Irish Republicans an IS, Mr Adams and his mates want a United Ireland, IS want to exterminate everyone on the planet that is not a Muslim who agrees with their interpretation of Islam. Even their modus operandi are different in that the IRA were generally after the security forces, quite often gave warnings of bombs and were not prepared to commit suicide to further their aims.
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By nallen
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1576111
Lindsayp wrote:Is Treason still on the statutes and is the penalty still death?


Yes; no.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1576112
There is just no comparison between Irish Republicans an IS, Mr Adams and his mates want a United Ireland, IS want to exterminate everyone on the planet that is not a Muslim who agrees with their interpretation of Islam. Even their modus operandi are different in that the IRA were generally after the security forces, quite often gave warnings of bombs and were not prepared to commit suicide to further their aims.


They are entirely comparable, the IRA wanted a united Catholic Ireland and their support was there because Catholics in NI were the subject of oppression and discrimination. Conversely protestants wanted to cling to their position which they saw as dependent on support from the rest of the UK.

IS finds fertile ground in oppressive dictatorships where Sunni and Shia Muslims see the same sort of discrimination. Here we have marginalised Muslim and other ethnic minority youth who create a similar disaffected population and provide a breeding ground.

IS also take advantage of the role of martyrdom in Islam by providing a twisted version for the vulnerable to engage with.

The ultimate solution in Ireland was to use the EU to create a quasi united Ireland with growing economic opportunity for all, thus removing the motivation to support terrorists.
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By Sooty25
#1576113
@Rob P I'm with you 100%

those that don't think IS or their like should be treated as murderous soldiers of war and shot on sight, need to just review the list on this page
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/europe-attacks.aspx
and then go and have a long hard think.

Remember the kids in Manchester
Bastille day in Nice
15 in St Petersburg
14 in Barcelona
Stockholm, Berlin, Brussels, Paris
and all the others.

If you are still not convinced, maybe you will be if its one of yours next time, just sitting there minding their own business on the Tube maybe.

We need to withdrawn from the middle east and let them get on with their own problems. We need out of the EU so we can close our borders and start protecting our own. The EU clearly doesn't have the spine to protect its own, at least we have a moat.
Root out and remove every piece of IS from UK soil. Every hate preacher, every activist, everyone linked to them.

Do it to protect MY HUMAN RIGHT to a peaceful and safe life.

Note, I have no connection with the link provided, it just happened to appear early in Google
By cockney steve
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1576116
If they reject the UK, the UK should reject them.
Withdraw citizenship, then they are just terrorists/mercenaries. targets for elimination
Why drag reactionaries back to the UK for a show trial?

They, and their cohorts do not recognise the authority of the infidel. a 50p* "bang" is a quick, cheap and pragmatic solution to a problem and would be much appreciated by the peaceable, moderate minority.

*Actually, I think .22 cartridges are cheaper than that, but , no doubt, Military-spec and procured ammo is probably nearer £1 a pop.

Remind me again, how much did Abu Hamza cost the British Taxpayer? :roll:
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By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1576117
In that case can I have all the BNP members and Brexiters shot please? :twisted:

I have lived with terrorism Irish or Islamic all my (long ) life. I got the phone call when they trashed Bishopsgate, because my team was supporting a whole lot of IT kit in the Natwest Tower.

I'm not prepared to allow the barstewards to make me compromise my standards of civilised behaviour, sorry.
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By Miscellaneous
#1576118
johnm wrote:I'm not prepared to allow the barstewards to make me compromise my standards of civilised behaviour, sorry.

Come on, John, headline grabbing and disingenuous thread title aside this idea of protecting what is a subjective, perceived and somewhat fanciful concept of civilised is exactly what they want and are given. It makes society a victim of its own actions.
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