[romille]

All this shipment of cheap English booze can be stopped, of course, by a hard border and customs checks when the Scots take back control...

As the UK government is working very hard to avoid a reintroduction of a hard border on the Island of Ireland, I can hardly see them introducing one in Great Britain.

I couldn't find a tongue-in-cheek emoticon: my point was that an independent Scotland could impose the border controls...

(Opinions differ as to exactly how hard HMG is working on the Irish border issue -- somewhere between not very hard at all, and could barely give a toss, as far as I can see.)

Even the threat of a reintroduction of the hard border on Ireland would have a negative impact on the economy of Northern Ireland and would reinforce the Republican call for a united Ireland. Remembering that TM and her government are dependent on the DUP to carry on it's parliamentary business I just don't see that situation arising.

[Paultheparaglider]

I am sure someone will set up a cross border supply, hence the need for UK-wide action to limit this.

I think it will be UK wide quite soon. Wales are already discussing this quite seriously, and won't be far behind Scotland in my opinion. Then give it a couple of years and some evidence that it has had a beneficial effect in Scotland and Wales, and the gutless politicians in England that have had their arms twisted to date by the drinks lobby will have a convenient excuse to follow suite.

I give it three years at the most for it to be UK wide practice.

And then, of course, Brexit will have happened and we can impose customs duties on booze runs to France. Who says Brexit won't have an upside.

[riverrock]

And then, of course, Brexit will have happened and we can impose customs duties on booze runs to France. Who says Brexit won't have an upside.

I thought that as we would then be crossing a customs border, duty free would be available again

I thought the real reason for doing minimum pricing rather than increasing tax in Scotland, was that the Scottish Gov didn't have the power to raise taxes so this was a way round it.

The sort of cheap, nasty alcohol that is currently bottom of the market is quite bulky, so probably easier for the police to detect. There will be a few people trying it on caught in the 2 months after it comes in, then it will go quiet until organised crime decides whether it is work the risk on. I suspect drugs would still pay better.

[romille]

The sort of cheap, nasty alcohol that is currently bottom of the market is quite bulky, so probably easier for the police to detect. There will be a few people trying it on caught in the 2 months after it comes in, then it will go quiet until organised crime decides whether it is work the risk on. I suspect drugs would still pay better.

Even if Police Scotland stop someone with a van full of cheap booze I can't see that they can do a thing about it without evidence of intent to sell it on as it is not illegal to have a van full of alcohol that has been properly purchased with UK tax and duty paid. Anyway I am certain that the Police have more pressing issues to deal with.

[cockney steve]

Re- "fake" tobacco.
Back in the mid-70's, a major Tobacco company built a new factory at Hunterston, a few miles south of Largs, near Glasgow. The factory 's intention was to produce "NSM" (New Smoking Material) They spent a great deal of time and energy, getting the burn-characteristics to be acceptable, the biggest difficulty being the length of ash and how it broke off. The factory was poised to go into full-scale production, saving a fortune in imports, when the Government dropped a bombshell and announced that NSM would attract the same Duty as natural tobacco.....result, the enterprise was not economic, the factory lay empty for many years and our opportunity to encourage a less-harmful smoking medium was lost.....The nuclear power-station next door was closed down for political expediency, another loss of jobs in the area.It had many years of potential life left.
"If a Politician's lips are moving, he's lying"...truer words never spoken.

[romille]

"If a Politician's lips are moving, he's lying"...truer words never spoken.

Well they say that there are three kind of lies, that is, lies, damned lies and statistics

[Bill Haddow]

it's forcing prices up, WITHOUT grabbing the proceeds for the exchequer. The higher prices here will not go to the taxman - in fact as sales are likely to go down, the exchequer revenue will reduce. Any additional income will go to the drinks and retail industries, not to the state.

Which I find interesting - it is opening a door to a new way of working, but not really one of minimum pricing as a means of social engineering - that's been with us for a long time. It's opening the door of doing this in a non-tax manner.

G

Not quite so, GtE. The nice (they are not cheap and nasty) wines on promotion in Lidl on weekends at £2-99 would go up to £4-50, resulting in an additional 25p of VAT going, somewhat ironically, to the UK Exchequer.

The blooter juice of choice for the neds, complete with caffeine and sugar to get them really fired up, will not be affected as it has just under 12 units and retails for over £7.

Another example of the Scottish Nazi Party doing something because it can, not because it will work.

Bill H

[PaulB]

So what do we do, then? EDs up and down the country are full of drunk people, particularly at the weekend, and the damage caused to individuals and their families is immense.

Something needs to be done. What is that something?

[romille]

So what do we do, then? EDs up and down the country are full of drunk people, particularly at the weekend, and the damage caused to individuals and their families is immense.

Something needs to be done. What is that something?

Perhaps people that end up in A & E because of drinking too much need to be issued with a bill to cover the cost of their treatment, that might stop them having the resources to get hammered for a week or two. If the cash goes to the NHS it's a positive for them and only the irresponsible will be penalised.

[Flyin'Dutch']

That would result in these people not ending up in Accident and Emergency Departments but instead dying in the street.

One of the great things of the NHS Is that people don't have to decide whether or not to go for treatment based on the thickness of their wallet.

And don't forget that we all undertake activities in our lives which others think may be excessive and that any additional health care costs should be carried by those pursuing those activities.

[Bill Haddow]

So what do we do, then? EDs up and down the country are full of drunk people, particularly at the weekend

Patent nonsense

Bill H

[PaulB]

.... and how will that work? Don’t believe it’s just teenagers who are rotting their livers. There are plenty of people “like us” doing the same thing (except we probably can’t afford to because we fly)

[PaulB]

So what do we do, then? EDs up and down the country are full of drunk people, particularly at the weekend

Patent nonsense

Bill H

Unfortunately not.....

[PaulB]

So what do we do, then? EDs up and down the country are full of drunk people, particularly at the weekend

Patent nonsense

Bill H

It didn’t take many seconds to find this..... uk based and recent

Results The prevalence rates of alcohol related attendances were 12% and 15% for the retrospective and prospective cohorts, respectively. Prospectively, the rates ranged widely from 4% to 60% across week days, rising to over 70% at weekends. Younger males attending in the early morning hours at weekends made up the largest proportion of alcohol related attendances. The mean cost per attendance was £249 (SD £1064); the mean total cost for those admitted was £851 (SD £2549). The most common reasons for attending were trauma related injuries followed by psychiatric problems.

http://emj.bmj.com/content/early/2015/1 ... 014-204581

[romille]

That would result in these people not ending up in Accident and Emergency Departments but instead dying in the street.

One of the great things of the NHS Is that people don't have to decide whether or not to go for treatment based on the thickness of their wallet.

And don't forget that we all undertake activities in our lives which others think may be excessive and that any additional health care costs should be carried by those pursuing those activities.

Unfortunately people who are ill through no fault of their own are dying because our NHS has not the resources to give them the best treatments available, as it is having to spend time and money treating idiots that abuse themselves.