[jaycee58]

I'm definitely very much in favour of university education but as I sit at home with a cold beer watching a magnificent Glastonbury set by Radiohead I can't help noticing that the group's only non-graduate (Jonny Greenwood) appears to be just as successful as the four graduate members .

[Cessna57]

It's luck. It's pure luck. I am only where I am now due to changing jobs in the 90's, walking in on my first day, my new manager saying "I know we employed you for job X, but do you mind helping out on job Y", and that was a turning point.

This is a forum of pilots, it's preselected for people who were lucky.

I'm constantly trying to help people who were less lucky than me. I had a hard early life. It was luck that got me out (and my now wife, who believed in me when no one else did).

Forget education, it's luck you need, and you can only make 50% of the luck that comes your way.

[Rob P]

I think I got a degree by accident (3rd Class Honours) even though it interfered with my Three Card Brag career. This at a time when only 5% of the school leaver population went on to become undergraduates.

It may have helped get the job at Saatchi, but I doubt it, CGR who recruited me, despite being a double blue with a first, didn't seem particularly interested in the academic stuff.

From that day I can't remember anyone actually asking about it.

Now 50% (?) have degrees, some are bound to end up as baristas. Probably a more suitable role than being the inadequate manager I have seen so many degree holders become

Rob P

[Bill McCarthy]

Science, technology and medical study ought to be funded by the nation. Anyone who wants to do a degree in golf management, David Beckham and other airy fairy stuff which is of no benefit to the country whatsoever should be self funded .

[Genghis the Engineer]

To a large extent that is what happens now. Universities receive a large government grant for each medical student, a bit less for science and engineering, but nothing for humanities - the student fees alone have to do.

Of course, it's also worth bearing in mind how much money the UK has made abroad from golf, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, fashion design, pop music. .. Actually quite a lot!

G

[haggis]

The jury in my own case is still out re a university education. Came from a north lanarkshire mining village and parents couldn't care a tupenny toss about my education. Failed the 11+ but was lucky that the first of the 4 year "o" level schools came into existence. Left to go into a craft apprenticeship and never really looked back. Married the right person (most import this) and as a mature student went to uni and got a masters degree, various directorships and in no doubt a degree is no substitute for hard work and application of effort. One daughter after a stuttering start went to uni and is now a main board director of a multi national at 39. Unfortunately she lives two doors down and sometimes it looks like she has never left home although grandson makes up for it all. As regards uni degrees well they look good on your CV but as an employer what good in making a decision does a prospective employee give you who turns up with "sport science and flower arranging". Time to get selective in funding methinks

[johnm]

The problem in getting onto the career ladder is that many companies use agencies and they use a tick box database system for filtering CVs (Lazy and incompetent but becoming universal) a degree is needed to get through the tick box gateway for many jobs. QED

I started a university career but effectively dropped out without completing it to join the IT industry. Being degreeless hasn't hindered me, I've even worked widely and successfully in Higher Education and Research.

[Miscellaneous]

To a large extent that is what happens now.

G

Bit different where Bill lives, G.

[OCB]

This is a forum of pilots, it's preselected for people who were lucky.

I wonder how many others reading that have been thinking "he's seen my landings???"

Forget education, it's luck you need, and you can only make 50% of the luck that comes your way.

This is on my book shelf:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Luck-Factor-Scientific-Study-Lucky/dp/0099443244/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1498291137&sr=1-1&keywords=the+luck+factor

This author is a British psychologist. Thoroughly interesting read.

[OCB]

Came from a north lanarkshire mining village

Yourself, Miscellaneous and myself all from North Lanarkshire - and saying so within the space of 24 hour. What are the chances of that!

One daughter after a stuttering start went to uni and is now a main board director of a multi national at 39. Unfortunately she lives two doors down and sometimes it looks like she has never left home although grandson makes up for it all.

Ready made and willing babysitter 2 doors up - smart lass

[PeteSpencer]

My education/further education /graduate/post graduate/ career path was mapped out the moment my biology teacher told me what A levels to do.

All I had to do was keep my head down, pass all the exams first time, (which I did) never fail an exam (I never did) then choose at the end of it all whether I wanted to aim high or middlin.

I guess I was consistently average, never failed an exam but never won any prizes.

I chose to rise above the 'basic qualifications' and did three Specialist (Royal College) qualification exams which got me on to the job shortlists with ease.

I dipped my toe in the 'aim high' path in the 70s but it would have meant staying in London, which didn't appeal to us having been there for 6 years all through the IRA bombings , so we bailed out. I guess I aimed middlin' but never regretted it.

Friends who stayed in the Smoke ended up working in the Street all weekend to pay the mortgage and school fees, most had broken marriages, kids on drugs, you know the stuff.

One even murdered his wife, a few ended up in the Old Bailey, a few were struck off.

Looking back now coming up to 12 years post retirement I can't complain.

So I don't

Peter

[rohmer]

"Surely the answer lies in what the candidate wants to do as a career ."

Indeed. I chose my degree and post grad courses to pursue my chosen career (applied hydrobiology) but I learnt more about life whilst working at a steel works and on the night shift in the Kelloggs factory.

[rusty eagle]

I left school at 16 with a couple of worthless CSEs including grade 4 woodwork. As my parents believed the world was going to end a few years later, education was not important! My father was delivery driver and basically it was a working class background.

After a few years of unskilled work, I then paid my way though tech college to get C & G FTC Electronics but couldn't get any further without a degree. I spent five years doing an OU BSc and was then sponsored to do an MSc.

Education has changed the way I look at things but in some ways jumping onto another track from unskilled worker to professional is not easy.

[nallen]

If you want to be a doctor , surgeon , lawyer,,or whatever , then it's a fairly clear cut choice that you need to continue your education via a university.

Though it is perhaps worth noting that some established professions used to have other, non-academic routes to entry. My grandfather and his eldest son both became solicitors, rising to be senior partners of a city law firm, by working their up through the trade, without a degree in sight. (Aviation link: my grandfather was the first secretary of the Society of British Aircraft Constructors, and worked extensively for various early aircraft companies, retaining links with the industry throughout his life: https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1956/1956%20-%200818.PDF)

[riverrock]

In my home town we had an academic focused grammar school, a vocational focused secondary school and a technical college which backed up apprenticeships and provided life long learning courses.
Me and my siblings all went to the grammar school ( all passed 11+) along with most of our primary school class mates.
As a child of two graduate parents they supported and encouraged me to go away to uni - so headed to St Andrews. One brother went to Warwick, sister went to Glasgow, other brother to Aberdeen. All of us are using the skills we learnt at Uni: Computing; management consultancy (currently in Kenya after not liking London); Speech Therapy; medicine.
The schools in my home town were excellent, my parents support has been excellent, all of our university experiences have shaped us in different ways. All of us led student societies, three out of four of us have married (or are engaged to) someone we met at uni.

Like with many things, you get out what you put in. All of us did subjects that directly relate and have relavance to our chosen careers. My sis isn't particularly "academic" but persevered to get her 2:2 and is now in a job and community she loves.

On "arts" subjects, a lot of the benefit isn't about the subject matter but in how you gather information, analyse it, understand it, communicate it. Those are the transferrable skills that business want. Unless you are staying in the academic world, often the subject doesn't really matter (history, English etc). You are being taught and are getting used to assimilating huge amounts of information, understanding it, forming an argument and presenting it to others via discussion groups, seminars, written pieces. Arts subjects, as you are left on your own alot more, require people who are more self motivated and you need to come out the end with confidence in your own transferrable abilities. If you don't, it was a waste of time and money. I do think that uni isn't for everyone, but we should be clear what it is and isn't.