For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
User avatar
By OCB
#1532340
In my defence m'lauds-I don't make any life decisions on the Daily Fail.

I had verified on a few other outlets-in fact saw it somewhere else first. The Fail was the only one with pictures of the gent in handcuffs and restrained.

I was even rather cautious in what I said for that very fact.

Of course there is more to the story, but as mentioned in the United incident- you absolutely cannot trust the aircrews' word either.

Have I ever seen aircrew massively over react, inflame a tiny issue then pull out the Terrorist card when it was clear they had lost the logical argument but still insisted on doing a Cartman "respect my authori..teeeh!"? Yes I have, as have many other travellers.

Have I seen aircrew (plus ground crew)treat slf so shocking badly that it contributed to a mid air medical emergency and rapid descent to nearest available? Yep.

It's one of the main reasons why CAT is my last choice.

I reckon some crews could go with some conditioning on a Glasgow night bus....I predict they'd be the ones soiling their smalls... :roll:
User avatar
By OCB
#1532342
Oooh- forget to add - prolly about time (like Glasgow night busses) that cameras and microphones are installed on CAT :twisted:

I am willing to bet the aircrew Unions - not slf- would be the ones kicking up about that!
User avatar
By Ben
#1532478
Peter
Try to fly EL AL to Israel for the Jewish holidays. According to United, Delta, BA etc. every passenger should be tied, handcuffed and gagged, somehow EL AL crews manage to avoid it.
By Barcli
#1532490
Couple of months ago we had to taxi back to stand with a disruptive passenger (Ba). We were duly met by 6 police officers. The passengers remained seated and the man was invited to the front of the aircraft to discuss what he had been accused of.......
The accusation was that he said " how about a f....ing beer" to one of the crew. This was the reason for his off load.
Unfortunately he was traveling with 5 others so the boys in blue deemed back up required and a total of 13 police offers were present to bus them away .... 2 hrs 40 mins later we departed ....
Disruptive ??? Or a BA arrogance issue ?
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
User avatar
By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1532509
A few years ago we sat on the tarmac in a BA 777 at LHR (destination Bangkok) at the start of a weddin anniversary far east trip while the Cabin Crew and boys in blue argued the toss with a pair of male Scandis who had been hitting the sauce in the departure lounge.

When one was asked to sit down , refused and lobbed his half eaten Big Mac at the CC, this was deemed to be the last straw and they were swiftly, forcefully and effectively marched down the aisle and off the plane before they knew what had hit them.

Applause all round:

My only worry while we were waiting for their bags to be offloaded (engines running) was that there was enough fuel reserve!

Peter
User avatar
By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1532523
Barcli wrote:Disruptive ??? Or a BA arrogance issue ?


Sensible pre-caution.

Why take a potential problem into the air?

I have of course not flown with every carrier in the world let alone all cabin crew but even on the limited experience I have (>90 flights per annum) it is my experience that the knobbiness of passengers outstrips that of cabin crew by a few gazillion miles.

The latter are invariable helpful and willing to sort out any sort of problem generated by passengers - after all they prefer to have an easier life too.
johnm, riverrock, Waveflyer and 1 others liked this
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1532525
I was on business class flight with a couple from the dark continent. It turned out that their children were unaccompanied in steerage and creating mayhem.

After some robust discussion they were caused to swap seats with a couple seated near their children.

Pretty sound I'd say.
Flyin'Dutch', AndyR, Waveflyer and 1 others liked this
By Paultheparaglider
#1532588
Waveflyer wrote:If I didn't trust the competence of the crew to make the right decision I wouldn't get on the aircraft.


My own experience has been that things aren't always quite that black and white.

There are some places in the world where I've used airlines with a relatively poor safety record. And others with a less than stellar customer service reputation. Sometimes you don't have an alternative if you want to visit a certain location, and it is worth remembering that even some of the worst airlines are still a safer way to travel than many alternatives.

Often, the customer service can be good on airlines with poor safety records, and sometimes the customer service is lousy on safe airlines. And, sometimes the customer service on the ground is poor, but good in the air, and vice versa. Sometimes, it is the service at the airport itself that is bad, but you don't always have a lot of choice if you want to travel to some places.

I mostly try to pick an airline with a safe reputation, and then trade off other factors such as price, comfort on the aircraft, service on the aircraft, and treatment on the ground. However, if I particularly want to visit somewhere I have made compromises on all of these. Further, my own actual experience affects my choice, as do what I see and read about airlines.

As an example, I used to have a United frequent flyer card, and have never had any safety concerns, but I have found their cabin service to be mediocre. I've found that true of the major US carriers generally. Given the latest news about the good doctor, United have moved down a notch on my selection list, but I'd still fly on them.

BA used to be high on my list of preferred airlines, but a bad experience on the ground moved them down my list a bit. I've always liked their cabin service. Maybe it isn't as gentle as many of the Asian and Middle East carriers, but I've always found it competent and professional. That is one reason why I think the account of the topic of this thread in the Wail is almost certainly inaccurate. That said, I was once downgraded at check in on a long haul flight, and when I suggested that such overbooking was poor customer service, the BA lady at check in replied by telling me BA was making record profits so it must be doing things right. The insensitivity and arrogance of that particular lady who showed me she put her airline's profitability above my customer satisfaction has lived with me since, and cost BA a fair bit of my travel budget, but I'd still happily fly on them. First world problems, of course, but incompetence in my eyes nonetheless.

I've flown on many relatively high risk airlines, and had mostly good experiences. Garuda, Air China, some regional African airlines, and Air India ( on which I had one nightmare experience). In the right circumstances, I'd use them all again because the risks still remain low even though they are definitely not the most competent in some aspects.

Likewise, I recall as an example a round the world trip on Air New Zealand from Heathrow to Los Angeles to Auckland to Hong Kong to Heathrow. I don't like Heathrow, but I hated arriving in Los Angeles in the middle of the night to be finger printed and interrogated before being allowed into the transit lounge. I don't like Auckland because the queue at immigration can be hours long (and as I used to visit New Zealand regularly, always tried to enter via Christchurch whenever possible as you were through immigration in minutes). In contrast, arriving and departing in Hong Kong is a breeze - I'm never more than five minutes in immigration, and then the baggage arrives very quickly after. None of these factors stop me travelling to these places. If you think Los Angeles is bad, the security people in Honolulu are ten times worse, but as Hawaii is such a great place I put up with it.

I've travelled on very few airlines where everything comes together well. Air New Zealand are great, as are some of the Japanese airlines I've flown on. But, most of my travel has involved compromises at some stage of the service chain. And, to make matters more complicated still, it is a constantly moving feast. So, I continually reassess. Further, on most airlines there is a high degree of variability of service from one crew to the next.

For me, though, the destination is far more important than how you get there. So, in my own case certainly, I've got onto aircraft where my expectations and confidence were balanced against my desire to travel.
User avatar
By Waveflyer
#1532593
Ptpg,
I don't doubt that you have put many words of wisdom in your post which quoted me.
Nothing you have said would change my mind.