For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
User avatar
By rikur_
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1524061
When we get urban folk move into the village they invariably complain about the lack of mains gas and the 'hassle' of getting an oil tank filled three times a year.... but at least the oil supply market is a properly competitive market where you simply pick up the phone and get three quotes for a tank load. If you've got room for a large tank you can also choose when to buy to take advantage of September wholesale pricing.
User avatar
By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1524062
PaulB wrote:Certainly happened to my Mum... they kept increasing here D/D until we spotted it.

I'm assuming that if you keep on top of the meter readings, then there's money to be saved. The problem is that my Mum's meter and me are more than 100 miles apart.


Paying more or less as DD payment does not make the bill go up or down but of course the money should be sitting in your/mum's account not the supplier's.

I had this conversation with one of the supplier's call handlers when we discussed a tariff whereby they would not take a DD payment for 3 months each year, which according to her amounted to 'a decent saving'

She did not seem to grasp that the bill would be the same and that not taking the DD payment would have zero influence on the total amount payable. I tried explaining it 3 times and then gave up.

A propos meter readings, two or three per annum should suffice shouldn't they?
#1524076
If the energy companies billed you in arrears for power actually used (like the phone companies) I might consider switching to DD, but while they insist on billing you for estimated use, no way.
#1524080
chevvron wrote:If the energy companies billed you in arrears for power actually used (like the phone companies) I might consider switching to DD, but while they insist on billing you for estimated use, no way.


So long as you give them a sensible estimate of usage from the outset why not? If you keep on top of your meter readings (hardly onerous except possibly for the elderly or infirm) I fail to see what the issue is - all the more so as the best rates are only available to DD customers.
User avatar
By rikur_
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1524089
Colonel Panic wrote:So long as you give them a sensible estimate of usage from the outset why not? If you keep on top of your meter readings (hardly onerous except possibly for the elderly or infirm) I fail to see what the issue is - all the more so as the best rates are only available to DD customers.

We've struggled with this on our second house. Being a 2nd home it is mostly occupied in the summer - so our gas/electric usage is pretty static all year round.... but every autumn they insist on forecasting that we'll have the heating on all winter and automatically change the DD, and then the reverse problem in spring. They don't seem to have the ability to accept our sensible estimates and stick with them.
By cockney steve
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1524115
I pay on the rendered bill. It appears to have gone from quarterly, to monthly, no doubt to improve their cash-flow. Often get an "estimated" bill and noticed a pattern, many years ago.

First estimated bill....over by about 25%.....second, +50% third, +100% (they were legally obliged to physically read at least once a year) I just read the meter, calculated debt and paid that off the bill, hope it screwed their paperwork. they actually called once, about my "debt" A frank exchange about their "estimates" took place. I will not allow them access to my bank A/c for Standing Order or Direct Debit. play them at their own game.

I recounted the tale of my late partner...dual fuel, both overcharged for a couple of years, with no attempt to refund. got an immediate bank-transfer plus £25 compensation on each fuel a/c....total was about £500. and DD reduced appropriately.
User avatar
By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1524127
chevvron wrote:If the energy companies billed you in arrears for power actually used (like the phone companies) I might consider switching to DD, but while they insist on billing you for estimated use, no way.


I thought you could do this - just pay by direct debit when the bill comes in? I used to do that (can't remember with gas or electricity, might have been both) but then switched to monthly DD for my own budgeting purposes, taking away big apres-winter lump sums.

British Gas (for gas!) seem to have things fairly well worked out and I'm in debit after the winter but in credit after the summer, so it all evens out. EDF for electricity...well, it was doing ok until I was away one meter reading and asked my neighbour if he'd do it for me. He mis-read one of the digits! Anyway, the DD was increased hugely. When I got back home I noticed what had happened and informed them.

Of course by this time I had hugely over-paid. So at the same time they refunded a large sum but also dropped my DD to almost nothing. Which of course meant I hugely under-paid next time. Which meant they put up the DD hugely next time...and so the damped phugoid started from scratch to try and zero me in on the correct amount.
User avatar
By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1524130
My problem having only lived in our new place for 6 months is knowing where to pitch the monthly DDs.

BGs figures for DDs seemed low to me and when I went on line (I'm paperless) I noticed that not only had they not read my meters since we moved in (despite two ugly great street-accessible meter cabinets,) they'd paid no attention to the readings I supplied in January.

Bill for c. £800 coming up..... :shock:

Peter
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1524149
The issue with last year's bill divided by 12 is that it could have been a very cold or very warm year...
So at least 2 of of the big suppliers (probably most of the others too) have "profiles" which they try to match you to. These profiles are carefully calculated to try to make estimates as accurate as possible. I understand that some providers have offsets (a %) on a profile (so you're profile 3 with a -3% offset).
Unfortunately there are only so many profiles, so although the majority of people's estimates are fairly accurate, a fair number of people's aren't.
Smart meters help the reading, but the billing systems (designed a long time before smart meters) aren't setup to get constant readings, so tend to only use readings once a quarter.

I was involved in the IT side of one of the big 6 a few years ago so things do move on, but I suspect the key systems won't have.

The reason they don't like people going into arrears and suddenly getting a huge winter bill, is because the high percentage of the population who live "hand to mouth" don't think about money more than a few weeks ahead. They can't cope with bill shock so having a constant amount per month helps both them (who get put under sea financial pressure) and the companies (who then don't have to chase debts).
By cockney steve
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1524164
Wonderful theory, but the thread, so far, tends to suggest that , either they're grossly incompetent in setting up and managing accounts, or, where they do manage, they invariably overcharge, if you don't watch them. they just love all those overcharges in their bank-account. Free finance for them, isn't it? (just like banks, for years, paid no interest on Current Accounts....but made a handsome return lending out their "free" working capital
User avatar
By rikur_
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1524177
One thing I would say in their defence is the variability in power use from year to year. Our main house uses oil heating and hot water, and so we are much more aware of our rate of consumption than we would be with just a gas meter to rely on.
A typical year is 3 tanks of oil for the year - but it has been 4 in cold winters, and when Mrs R was on maternity leave that used another half-tank keeping the house warm during the day. It can't be an easy thing to forecast.