Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:29 pm #1519099
Propwash wrote:However, having established separate parliaments/assemblies I can't see how the genie can ever be put back into the bottle, so in order to be fair to all parties in the union I personally see no alternative to establishing a federal model along the lines of that in Australia which works pretty well for them.
I'll have to read up on the Australian model.
having already seen measures on the NHS in England pushed through only because of the votes of nationalist MPs whose own constituents would be unaffected
And that. Can your steer me to the right bill, or debate?
I sense a growing awareness in England (probably the least politically motivated of the home nations as a rule) of how unfair the current constitutional arrangements are.
Good. I can't help feeling we've slightly slid into the old cliche of outraged majorities feeling put upon by minorities, but that aside, frankly, it would be altogether easier if we could separate English interests from Unionist interests more clearly.
The problem for Wales (and I suspect you won't like this fact but that doesn't make it less true) is that many current laws and arrangements are "England and Wales" in nature and impact, whereas Scotland has always retained its own legal system and therefore mostly separate laws, even where they mirror those elsewhere in the UK. That doesn't prevent a truly federal system being adopted for the UK but does make it slightly more complicated and is probably the reason for the dog's breakfast arrangements that were put in place for Wales rather than a full parliament as Scotland was given.
You're right. Mainly for its laziness, but also for its unfairness.
England, of course, was only offered the chance of voluntary disembowelment as a nation into artificial semi-fuedal fiefdoms which would go nowhere near answering democratic disparity with the other home nations, in fact would have made it many times worse. Thankfully even the politically apathetic English could see that and rejected it.
You've lost me, sorry.
The biggest objections to re-visiting the constitutional arrangements will of course come from a self-interested political class at Westminster, from all parts of the UK, because such a federal system will inevitably mean a wholesale reduction in the number of members of what will become the federal parliament (ie the rump Westminster), their workload and responsibilities and powers being greatly lessened
I suspect you're right. Labour in particular needs Wales more than Wales needs them.
In the meantime, and until there is such pressure for change that Westminster can't resist it any longer (sound familiar?) I struggle to see how you, or any other nationalist from Scotland, Wales or NI, can fairly object to the exclusion of their MPs from debates and votes on all matters in England for which their own devolved administrations have responsibility at home.
Errm, I'm not doing? My objection was rather the opposite - that English MPs were "talking out" a ddbate meant to be about the impact of Brexit on the devolved nations.
The nationalist parties actually hold different views on this anyway - SNP policy if that yes they should vote due to Barnett. Plaid Cymru policy is no they shouldn't except when, as you point out, we get sucked in as an appendage of EnglandAndWales.
I know that Wales only voted by the narrowest of margins to establish a devolved administration in Cardiff, which would suggest that many of your fellow countrymen don't share your view that England (by which I presume you meant Westminster - which isn't of course the same thing) treats Wales as some sort of modern colony. I wonder how much appetite there would be in Wales today for even greater devolution into a full federal system?
Shallower margin than Brexit back in 97 yeah. But the 2007 vote for increased power was a healthier 63% with a Yes everywhere except Monmouth.
I expect to see that support continue and increase.
Especially if Westminster presents the thin end of the stick in thei Brexit arrangements which going by the debate which drew me into this conversation they appear fully content to do.
"Let's go flying"
Scribblings of a novice PPL
Scribblings of a novice PPL