Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1518084
Meanwhile in Germany parliament is arguing how to spend the 23 Billion surplus they have collected over the past 12 months.

Despite being under the cosh of the EU and euro......
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By eltonioni
#1518085
An illegal surplus that's the result of a "currency racket". Not sure if we should be envious of the German sort of being in control or not and I'm as unsure if the EU has imposed any sort of punishment sanctions, popular or otherwise.
By johnm
#1518093
eltonioni wrote:An illegal surplus that's the result of a "currency racket". Not sure if we should be envious of the German sort of being in control or not and I'm as unsure if the EU has imposed any sort of punishment sanctions, popular or otherwise.


The point is that Germany has succeeded in building both a government surplus and a balance of payments surplus through intelligent long term investment in industry at all levels. We have had the skills and capability to do something similar, but never had the will. We just keep whinging and trying to blame our inadequacies on others.

The pathetic performance in Westminster is hopefully the start of the dawning realisation that we aren't victims, our injuries are entirely self inflicted.
kanga, mattrm, jerry_atrick and 3 others liked this
By JoeC
#1518109
eltonioni wrote:An illegal surplus that's the result of a "currency racket". .


Boo hoo. So our bright, shiny, new, EU-free United Kingdom will be entering the fray of global trade in just our underpants but carrying the mighty British sword of righteousness and whining 'please play by the rules'.
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By nallen
#1518115
JoeC wrote:Boo hoo. So our bright, shiny, new, EU-free United Kingdom will be entering the fray of global trade in just our Chinese-made underpants…


Fixed that for you, Joe!
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By Propwash
#1518120
johnm wrote:
The point is that Germany has succeeded in building both a government surplus and a balance of payments surplus through intelligent long term investment in industry at all levels.

And the artificial devaluation of its currency against its peers didn't help at all did it? After the disaster of the decision to make one East German Mark equal to one West German Mark following reunification, the happy coincidence of the Euro being so favourable to the German export market is probably just that and Khol only pushed it because he was thinking of others. :roll:

Your refusal to accept that the surplus is illegal under EU law, has been growing illegally for years, disadvantages Germany's neighbours, is the direct result of the Euro, and that the lack of action by the EU to enforce its own laws on Germany whilst strictly and punitively enforcing them on smaller nations, at least to some degree with German encouragement, is irritating, but not as much as your insistence that Germany should be held up as some paragon of economic virtue. It is, in EU terms, more akin to a bandit state.
The pathetic performance in Westminster is hopefully the start of the dawning realisation that we aren't victims, our injuries are entirely self inflicted.

That at least is true. Joining the EU was indeed a self-inflicted wound, hopefully soon to be healed. :wink:

Interestingly, Mervyn King, a long serving former BofE governor, said in a speech to the LSE yesterday that leaving the EU represented "real opportunities" for economic reform in the UK and called for us to leave both the single market and the customs union.

(He also had some interesting things to say about the way that proper debate on EU membership had been stifled by politicians and that this caused a Brexit vote to be inevitable).

Of course, 10 years as BofE governor may not mean that he knows what he is talking about on our economy and he should have deferred to johnm. :lol:

:wink:

PW
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By Paul_Sengupta
#1518128
As I said on another thread, someone German recently said that the basic rate of income tax in Germany was 35%. If we changed ours to 35% then we could probably have a surplus reasonably quickly and start paying off our debts.

Not sure it would go down well with people though.

I believe we should add a few percent on (temporarily, y'know, for the duration of the war and all that) to get the Government finances in line without having to cut services to quickly. Didn't it used to be 25% not that long ago? Now 20%? Of course you need to add NI on to that.
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By Dave_Ett
#1518134
Propwash wrote: ...leaving the EU represented "real opportunities" for economic reform...


I suspect "Reform" is used to imply a change for the better for the UK.

Reform can equally mean a change for something worse. The usual politician language.
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By Propwash
#1518142
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
I believe we should add a few percent on (temporarily, y'know, for the duration of the war and all that) to get the Government finances in line without having to cut services to quickly.

Increasing taxation is a blunt instrument and has frequently proved to be counter-productive. (Those with long enough memories to recall the 1970's shouldn't take much convincing of that). I would far prefer to see the government spend money that it already raises more wisely before trying to find ways to raise more.

PW
By cockney steve
#1518147
^^^^^ whilst I concur, there's something to be said for raising [b] both [b] the basic -rate and, more importantly, the threshold....that then leaves the inevitable perceived injustice by those on the edge of the threshold. I'm sure it's not an insoluble problem, if there's the will, but to have a taxation regime where some departments are giving benefits, whilst others are charging tax, is ludicrous.
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By Morten
#1518150
Paul_Sengupta wrote: someone German recently said that the basic rate of income tax in Germany was 35%.


In this post-factual world :wink: , someone probably wouldn't care to check whether what he is saying is made up or not, but if he did want to, he could start by a google which would lead him e.g. here. Especially this graph may be useful:


Compare this with the equivalent, from (almost) the same source, for the UK:
Image

The changes are not as big as all that... :pig:

Morten
Last edited by Morten on Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By johnm
#1518185
These figures provide an interesting perspective:

German exports to EU €708 billion
German imports from EU €633 billion
Net surplus €75 billion
German exports to R o W €500 billion
German imports from R o W €322 billion
Net surplus €178 billion

UK equivalents

UK exports to EU €257 billion
UK imports from EU €339 billion
Net Deficit €82 billion

UK exports to R o W €374 billion
UK imports from R o W €382 billion
Net deficit € 8 billion
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By Ben
#1518232
johnm wrote:
The point is that Germany has succeeded in building both a government surplus and a balance of payments surplus through intelligent long term investment in industry at all levels. We have had the skills and capability to do something similar, but never had the will. We just keep whinging and trying to blame our inadequacies on others.

The pathetic performance in Westminster is hopefully the start of the dawning realisation that we aren't victims, our injuries are entirely self inflicted.


(Highlighting of the above not part of original quote)

John
It is not just lack of will it is due to different culture. In this country during the 1970's and 80' guys like Goldsmith were allowed to buy good solid companies, strip them of their assets, get rid of the workers and cash on. The same happened around 5 years ago to the company (Thresher) that my wife used to work as a (de-facto) treasurer. Everything was sold off and re-leased, from solid profitable company it turned into a loss making company then it was sold to new investors who lost all with in a year. Many lost their money, suppliers and employees while the administrators were charging and collecting their fees.

Rupert Murdoc, Sir Philip Green and I think some other robbed the pension schemes of the employees and then? Nothing did happen.
So i agree that the same can happen everywhere not just in the UK but I believe that if the same would have happen, say, in Germany a strong action would have taken to prevent it from happening again.

It is not just a matter of will, it is a matter of culture.
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