For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
#1871427
Well sort of, but I'd argue you have it backwards... He has an immersion heater -now- and it's not integrated with any of the other heat sources.

It -might- get integrated with some other stuff in the future.

Anyway, either Tado or Evohome will control the electric part of an immersion heater fine with an external relay or contactor.
#1871444
The question was if there was a way to control the immersion heater to use it to get the temperature up (to over IIRC 55C):

Rjk983 wrote:Do either of you have it rigged to control an immersion at all? If not do you have an alternate control for an immersion to top up your cylinder temperature regularly to prevent legionella?


As without it, it wouldn't.

So yes, a relay would do it! :D
#1871892
Rjk983 wrote:Thanks for the comments and suggestions.

@stevelup thanks for the offer. I’ll drop you a pm with some more specific questions if that is ok.

@SafetyThird @Colonel Panic thanks, I hadn’t heard of TADO. I just had a look on their website and the help forum says it can’t run an immersion due to the max current limitation. Do either of you have it rigged to control an immersion at all? If not do you have an alternate control for an immersion to top up your cylinder temperature regularly to prevent legionella?


I don't have mine installed yet but I've been using solar PV for 7 years with an Eddi solar diverter which I'll continue using. Any system should be able to switch an immersion load but it may need to be done via a relay or similar to handle the load.
Rjk983 liked this
#1875171
Interested to hear from the Tado owners if they use the smart TRVs, and overall happiness with the company/support etc?

I had just bought 3x Eve smart TRVs - but think I'll send them back and go the whole hog with Tado. I hadn't heard of them til on here! I assumed they were a dodgy Chinese highly insecure rip-off of Nest...didn't realise they are a solid German company... :oops:

Setup is combi gas boiler with old dumb programmable thermostat in the living room. House from the late 50s, ground floor is a bee-ugger to keep warm. Upper floors alright, but when it drops below zero, the wife ends up having the heating on 24/7 :pale:

Aims are to:
1. Smarten up the system. Gas prices like everywhere gone mental, plus we are WFH - so someone at home 100% of the time now etc.
2. Lock down the TRVs - my 10 yr old has a compulsive addiction to effin around with the TRVs. This morning I found the one in their bathroom at "5" again, bliddy sauna in there!
3. Not have anything in my smart ecosystem linked to Google.
4. Apple Homekit compatible, and ideally with Thread

I had gone with Eve TRVs as I have other Eve stuff at home, and impressed by their "nothing in the cloud" privacy stance, their app "rocks", great reviews etc.

I had started looking at Ecobee - but google kept serving me ads for Tado...so thought I'd check in here to see what the parish thought of them, and as always.... :thumright:
#1875189
My 2 year experience with Tado has been positive. IIRC the instructions they send you are tailored for your _specific_ needs (ie what boiler / HW tank / timer etc you have), and the wiring was fairly easy. Top Tip - take before & after photos of ALL wiring as you could well need them (I did!). They included adapters for various dumb TRVs that I had before so the installation of the TRVs themselves was very easy.

The app is good, as is support. I remain unsure what the purpose of their Smart Thermostat is, and I may have made a mistake in getting one; after all, if all(/most?) of your radiators have a TRV, what is the purpose of a thermostat? Tado have been less than helpful in answering this.

I don't use the "Away" / geofencing feature, but probably should. The open window detection is very accurate. You can add a Child Lock to each TRV via the app. Not sure about Thread support. IIRC there is a 25 device AND a 10 room limit - the latter is a PITA for me, so I have had to double up some rooms which is not ideal.
OCB liked this
#1876075
I’m pulling the trigger on Tado.

Good info CP, will definitely keep it in mind!

I had the same question about the Smart Thermostat- and some people on their forum also.

Forum answer from their tech support was that you should have the smart thermometer in the “most used room” placed away from radiator and other heat sources (fireplace, direct sunlight), away from drafts, 1.5m off the ground to give the most accurate “real” room temperature. The same advice for “thermostats” in fact.

Makes perfect sense in my situation, where the living room is 3 distinct zones, 2 radiators, 1 wall full glass - so having a well placed thermostat is essential. I will be curious to see how Tado copes with that room in fact - in terms of comfort, it’s a nightmare to heat.

Thread - asked. No, their kit isn’t “meshed” in any way.

I asked about range of their “bridge” (what I’d call base station). It’s on 868mhz, one of the ultra low power protocols, and they say range is easily 2/3 floors.

I asked if all TRVs should be replaced, and they have an article on that as well.

I’d have been tempted to go for the most important rooms/radiators - especially the ones needing bliddy “child lock”…but I’ve found someone down the road from me whose closing his business and I’m getting the lot for a decent discount, full warranty and VAT receipt so I can bung it onto the company!

Fitting - ex husband of my wife’s friend is a plumber/heating engineer, so he will be paid 3 or 4 nice Belgian beers for the “fitting service”. Yes, I’m more than capable of doing it myself, but it gets him out the house + gives me a 6ft3 and certified firebreak in case something does actually go wrong!

For those who read this, and are wondering “why would I buy Tado when I can get IoT smart TRVs for half the price”…then I thoroughly recommend watching this young gent:

https://youtu.be/IRybadWKsYk
Colonel Panic liked this
#1876085
Pete L wrote:Can tado work without being Internet connected? I have this marked reluctance to have random household appliances not under direct control from the house although I'd trust a German company more than most.


It’ll continue with its existing program apparently - but it is indeed a cloud based solution.

Completely agree - I absolutely didn’t want something as “dumb” as heating control to have a cloud component- but as you said, German company who must comply with GDPR. Their argument is kinda that cloud based computing/AI best manages the workload.

Part of my day job is currently getting a lot of industrial workload into the cloud - so I’m probably a bit more up to speed on the risk/benefits.

No, I’d prefer control remained “on prem” for my heating,and I wouldn’t be surprised if some open source dudes will come up with a Home Assistant redirect to a local web server.
#1876109
OCB wrote:Forum answer from their tech support was that you should have the smart thermometer in the “most used room” placed away from radiator and other heat sources (fireplace, direct sunlight), away from drafts, 1.5m off the ground to give the most accurate “real” room temperature. The same advice for “thermostats” in fact.

Sorry for being dim, but are they assuming that the "most used room" will also have TRVs, and if so I still don't really understand that the thermostat adds. :?

I asked about range of their “bridge” (what I’d call base station). It’s on 868mhz, one of the ultra low power protocols, and they say range is easily 2/3 floors.

The Billet is a long thin 2 storey house (~25m x ~8m), with the boiler at on end & the sitting room at the other; I have had to put the bridge in the centre of the house & it works fine - but only just
#1876111
OCB wrote:@Colonel Panic - what would you realistically reckon Tado has saved you in pounds & pence (expressed as percentage saving), what are the added comfort factors - and genuinely negatives of their products/platform?


That is very difficult to guesstimate as we have had it for maybe 2 years and that has mostly been COVID-times; I have a history of being uber-mean with heating so my usage wouldn't be representative. But what I can say is that the added flexibility is great, and being able to heat (or not :wink: ) all rooms individually & independently has been hugely enjoyable.

I much prefer it over the previous Nest system due to a) the inclusion of Hot Water, b) TRVs, and c) it not being owned by Google.

If I had to criticise Tado, it would be the 10 zone limit above all else, and TBH the rest of it is fine.
#1876116
@Colonel Panic - indeed, control over each TRV is a huge reason I’m buying.

The room stat’s “raisin d’être” is to “not” be a heat data collection point that’s stuck right next to a source of heat….I can’t really explain it any better than that….you simply want your thermostat to be placed in a location that is best served to deliver an output that is “consistently comfortable”.

There’s plenty of science that explains what is considered “comfortable”, but that’s getting way too geeky for here!
Colonel Panic liked this
#1876134
Just to say, can continue to use the physical Hive thermostat etc when it rains in the cloud.
The TRVs can trigger "boost" on the thermostat to request heat from the boiler. Just be aware that there are lots of complaints that the TRVs can be very slow to let water into a radiator (5 to 15min) although this may have been addressed in later versions, so not suitable if you often change your mind on whether to heat a room.
#1877046
OCB wrote:@Colonel Panic - indeed, control over each TRV is a huge reason I’m buying.

The room stat’s “raisin d’être” is to “not” be a heat data collection point that’s stuck right next to a source of heat….I can’t really explain it any better than that….you simply want your thermostat to be placed in a location that is best served to deliver an output that is “consistently comfortable”.

There’s plenty of science that explains what is considered “comfortable”, but that’s getting way too geeky for here!


Coming back to the topic of "what is the Smart Thermostat for" - it might help (me at least) if I reduce things down to a system with a house with just one room and one radiator.

Taking as read that the radiator has a working Tado TRV, what is the purpose of having the Smart Thermostat in the same room - irrespective of where in the room the Thermostat is?

If I want to make the room warmer it seems logical to me to raise the desired temp on the TRV, and so can't see what the Smart Thermostat brings to the party.