Non aviation content. Play nice – No religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
#1531033
PaulB wrote:Why so?

I can't quite make up my mind whether it's a genuine question, Paul, or you're trying to draw me in? :lol:

Suffice to say, I don't necessarily share the majority view on the efficiency of NHS funding and operation. :wink:
By PeteSpencer
#1531059
Oh ye of little faith:

Watching it will pull the scales from your eyes and give the lie to the naysayers who criticised the Junior doctors' strikes of last year.

I thought I had it bad as a junior doctor in the 70s: Jeez ; that was nuthin' compared to the cr ap today's youngsters have to put up with.

One thing is certain, like miscellaneous, Jeremy Hunt wasn't watching it...

Shame about the tw@ttish programme title though,guaranteed to provoke tw@ttish responses.

Peter
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By PaulB
#1531117
Misc, it wasn't to draw you in. I think we might agree more than you think. However, I do think that the frontline services and those that support them are working under almost intolerable pressure - more than I've ever known.
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By GolfHotel
#1531174
PeteSpencer wrote:Oh ye of little faith:

Watching it will pull the scales from your eyes and give the lie to the naysayers who criticised the Junior doctors' strikes of last year.


Especially if you belive everything you are told without questions or thought.


I thought I had it bad as a junior doctor in the 70s: Jeez ; that was nuthin' compared to the cr ap today's youngsters have to put up with.


When I lived in t cardboard box in t middle of t road....

One thing is certain, like miscellaneous, Jeremy Hunt wasn't watching it...


Shame he's not watching really. It's usually best to get your information from a TV programme. I find they are generally a balanced and reliable source.



Shame about the tw@ttish programme title though,guaranteed to provoke tw@ttish responses.

Peter


Yeah. I think that's been proven. :lol: :lol:
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By A le Ron
#1531199
I wonder why nationally 49% of our junior doctors are giving up medicine or emigrating before entering specialist training? For the second year running, in my region, the number of applicants for specialist training has precisely followed this trend, leaving us with far too few to staff rotas now and far too few to replace expected consultant retirements over the next few years. Sadly, this is fact, not conjecture.
By PeteSpencer
#1531217
Shame about the tw@ttish programme title though,guaranteed to provoke tw@ttish responses.

Peter

[quote="GolfHotel"

Yeah. I think that's been proven. :lol: :lol:[/quote]

Ain't that the truth.............. :roll:
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By Pete L
#1531243
A le Ron wrote:I wonder why nationally 49% of our junior doctors are giving up medicine or emigrating before entering specialist training? For the second year running, in my region, the number of applicants for specialist training has precisely followed this trend, leaving us with far too few to staff rotas now and far too few to replace expected consultant retirements over the next few years. Sadly, this is fact, not conjecture.


Is our system a net importer of medical staff or net exporter?

If we were doing our first world duty, I'd expect us to be an exporter.

As the world's 5th or 6th richest country I'd expect us to be an importer - the best would have a natural reason to emigrate since there are 4 or 5 better places to go, and in a free market I'd expect us to have not quite the world's best care.

Which is probably close to the truth.
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By Pete L
#1531245
On those who give up on completion...

Around 90% of the Chemical Engineering graduates from my former college (the people who'd end up designing much of our non-mechanical production) end up in the City.

Can't remember the percentages on teachers changing careers, but it's very high.

Before we use that as a criticism, the first question is what would be business as usual. I can well imagine many keen and eager students attracted by the potential pay and status having had enough of the general public in their first week as a trainee as a GP or A&E .
#1531248
Quite a number of junior docs quit at an early stage (I. e. post foundation year 2 by which time they're judged after two years close supervision to be ready practice unsupervised and to embark on further training, be it GP, Medicine, Surgery, Obstetrics & Gynaecology.

They go to other first world countries (Australia and NZ are popular) where the post graduate training may actually be no better than in the UK but the working conditions lend to an easier life, with no stress about filling in deficient rotas and being obliged to work all hours God sends, so that the training can get done efficiently by a non-tired junior..

Some stay but most will come back to the UK fully (?better) trained than those poor sods that sweated it out, and walk into nice Consultant/G P jobs here.

Listening between the lines of the juniors interviewed on the first programme, rather than stubbornly assuming that because it's a TV programme it's all lies, might be a beneficial exercise for some forumites.

Peter
Last edited by PeteSpencer on Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#1531271
Pete L wrote:On those who give up on completion...

Around 90% of the Chemical Engineering graduates from my former college (the people who'd end up designing much of our non-mechanical production) end up in the City.

Can't remember the percentages on teachers changing careers, but it's very high.

Before we use that as a criticism, the first question is what would be business as usual. I can well imagine many keen and eager students attracted by the potential pay and status having had enough of the general public in their first week as a trainee as a GP or A&E .


In the boom years of the early (loadsa money) 80s, Banks and City Institutions were creaming off newly qualified, but not fully registered (1 year post grad then, two years now) doctors as they stepped out of the doors of their Medical Schools.

It was deemed they had just the right profile (whatever that is) for the cut and thrust of the city jobs.

Sadly these ex-medic new bankers were the first out when the crunch came (89-90) and without their 'independence ticket' (for want of a better description) they found it immensely difficult to get back into medicine, having sampled the life outside the hospital walls: Many didn't return and started a third career....

Peter
By riverrock
#1531272
PeteSpencer wrote:Watching it will pull the scales from your eyes and give the lie to the naysayers who criticised the Junior doctors' strikes of last year.

I suggest that none of what was seen had anything to do with the doctors' strikes? A "work to rule" would have been much more effective than strikes. Nothing in that programme suggested money was an issue? It also didn't suggest that contracted hours were the issue - it was the work beyond contracted hours and the work load during them that were the issues.

It showed what should be happening (doctors working contracted hours, doctors having enough time with their patients, building up of a relationship with a long term patient allowing trust and root cause of the issue to be addressed) when the system was working properly.

It showed that the system only just worked when stretched (after some people didn't turn up to work and a consultant scheduling mistake meant they were understaffed) with dedicated people picking up as best they could, and working beyond their contracted hours.

It showed that the high levels of staff dropout were unsustainable, as the people weren't being replaced by new Junior doctors, requiring employment of foreign doctors (obvious answer is that we should be training more doctors - more doctors means less work for each one means less dropout and those that drop out would be covered by others - who is it that decides how many doctors are to be trained?). It suggested the issue wasn't money but finding enough doctors to fill the spaces.