Discuss the problems and solutions to all of the situations that Pilot X finds himself in.
By ian_737
#1907538
Recently I discovered my personal cross wind threshold is quite under the aircrafts limitations, and learned what it felt like to almost lose ground control on a touch and go.

The feeling of the left wing and the rear of my aircraft being lifted up and pushing my nose down while on the ground, moving forward at 40kts or so is something that felt completely unnatural.

I thought I handled it well considering it happened and was over in probably 3 seconds; abort T&G, power back to slow the aircraft, regain forward steering and ask for a back track.

Has anyone else ever experienced this, and what were your immediate actions/thoughts to prevent it from happening on future trips?
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1907543
Did you have the stick/yoke forward when this happened? When that is forward you can start to wheelbarrow (the nose wheel becomes the load bearing part of the undercarriage and the aeroplane starts to behave like a tailwheel aeroplane - with the relative instability thereof)

Anything that happens doesn't break you or the aeroplane is a good experience.
By ian_737
#1907548
My memory doesn't recall, but perhaps I did ever so slightly without noticing and then it built up. One to keep in my mind should it ever start to happen again, thank you.
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By VRB_20kt
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1907619
Well I must confess that I’m not able to shed any light on matters. 40kts is near enough flying speed in many single engine aircraft and I would expect the controls to work in their normal sense. In fact at that speed I’d expect a go around to be the safe option.

Aircraft limitations in crosswind typically arise when you run out of rudder and can’t lower the into wind wing any further.

In crosswinds, the lower of pilot limit and airframe limit applies. You can raise pilot limit with practice and currency. Sounds like this is one to put down to experience and to keep practicing!
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1907702
What sort of aircraft? I'm assuming it isn't a 737!
If you were getting excessive nose-down as you sped up - could you have re-trimmed the wrong way / too far when changing from landing to takeoff configurations? Could you have been inadvertently been touching the right brake pedal? Could you have bit a bump in the runway? A large gust could lift your wing, but it shouldn't have given you the impression of nose down. However a sudden decelleration (gust from in front) may have given that impression.
Good plan to reject your takeoff when there was any doubt though!
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1907711
One thought occurs. In some aircraft, you have to be extremely careful about lowering the nose wheel on a touch and go.

The only time my instructor ever shouted at me was the first time I flew T&Gs. I had assumed that the idea was to land, roll on all three wheels, and then take off again. So once, and only once, in late 1991, I landed, and moved the stick forward to lower the nose wheel.

He yelled "NO.... Get that stick back'.

So of course I did. It wasn't until quite a bit later that I understood about the very small amount of damping that Grumman nose legs have, and the ease with which porpoising can be induced, with the inevitable disastrous results. By then, of course, fully held-off landings were second nature, and the risk had gone.

I'm wondering (as [usermention=10739]@riverrock[/usermention] suggests), if some stick forward on touchdown got amplified somehow by a sudden lull, which would reduce the airspeed, and of course cause a corresponding pitch down.

For the Go of a Touch and Go, I would personally never lower the nose all the way to the ground. When you add the power back in, you're back at flying speed so quickly that you don't need to - only enough to get rid of all the drag that comes from the high alpha.
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By Rob L
#1907849
Forgive me, but ian_737 needs some cross-wind practice.

It's not difficult to master; it just needs practice. Try a few hours in a taildragger, and you'll be sorted for life.
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1907859
Rob L wrote:

> Forgive me, but ian_737 needs some cross-wind practice.
>

Be that as it may, I think the key point to tease out here is this notion of there being anything that the wind can do to lift the tail and force the nose down in the absence of a control input that would allow it.

I don't buy that for a second, so it's worth trying to figure out what actually happened, as it may help the OP refine his technique.

I mean, in theory you could get a narrow jet of air that could lift a wing and the tail, but that's not how wind behaves, and I've never experienced anything like that in 30 years and 1200 hours, and I've landed in strong gusting crosswinds gazillions of times.