Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By Johnno
#371343
Myself and Lesser Weevil are having a small debate about rule 5.

I say a wall is classed as a "structure", thus you're not permitted to fly within 500 feet of it.

She disagrees, who's right?
User avatar
By lesser weevil
#371346
Small debate!!!

Okay I know that Rule 5 says no closer than 500ft to any vessel, vehicle, structure or person.

But obviously that means that if there aren't any, then you can go lower. Like for example, when flying over the sea, or over a moor or something.

I don't think low walls count... on a moor, for example.
User avatar
By Moli
#371348
What constitutes a wall.... will be the next question :wink:

Moli
User avatar
By lesser weevil
#371349
a stone! 8)
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By Johnno
#371350
Moli wrote:What constitutes a wall.... will be the next question :wink:


Don't start!! :lol:

My argument was that a wall is a man made structure, thus is included.
User avatar
By Moli
#371357
Isnt it largely irrelevent though, as any wall standing alone (not including Gt Wall Of China :wink: ) is unlikely to be very high eg LWs example of walls on moors max of what, 5 feet or so? So can you judge 500 feet to within 5 to 10 feet, I cant. If the wall is any higher than 5 -10 feet give or take, there is usually some form of other structure around where the 500 foot rule applies,.... God I cant believe you have got me thinking about this....off to work now :wink:

Moli
User avatar
By Happyeater
#371358
Prison walls are higher...... :?

A wall must be classed as a structure and therefore kept more than 500 ft away from you in your hairy plane...shirley?? 8)

What about a hay stack? Is that a man made structure once cut and shaped....oh eck, where's the bottle opener....
User avatar
By Johnno
#371359
Haha, sorry!

I think it's pretty relevant. Somebody could be flying around said moors at 100 feet, but claim not to be breaking any rules as the walls aren't classed as "structures".

And I'm sure you'd agree that without training or permission that's not the most sensible thing to do. And I seem to remember from low level nav. exercises (600 feet or so) that it's relatively hard to judge what's on the ground ahead of you, ie CAA inspector!

(I probably am looking into this too deeply, but I still say that a wall is regarded as the "structure" which rule 5 refers to.)

Enjoy work, Moli!
By Crash one
#371360
A "man made" structure could be an almost buried Roman road. Or back to the Stone age, where do you stop? Does it actually say "man made structure" or will a birds nest do?

Trevor
User avatar
By Johnno
#371364
Crash one wrote:A "man made" structure could be an almost buried Roman road. Or back to the Stone age, where do you stop? Does it actually say "man made structure" or will a birds nest do?


Uh oh, I better duck for cover!

I'm not necessarily refering to the practicalities of the rule, but what the rule actually states (doesn't say "man made structure", only "structure").
User avatar
By lesser weevil
#371369
I think I should be allowed to fly at less than 500 feet over a wall. Or a bird's nest, for that matter :D

Naaaah a bird's nest is bird made!!!

Oh yah...

I think all we wanted was a simple yes or no :D
By Crash one
#371370
Uh oh, I better duck for cover!

I'm not necessarily refering to the practicalities of the rule, but what the rule actually states (doesn't say "man made structure", only "structure").[/quote]

So theoretically a birds nest will do
Are you suggesting that if there is NO structure you can fly at absolute zero?
If so then Moli's lack of judgement :lol: to within 5 ft is irrelevant.
I wonder if the CAA are expecting us to use some common sense, do they allow us to do that? :twisted: :twisted:
User avatar
By lesser weevil
#371371
Is the earth, as a planet, a structure? :D

Okay I ban all bird's nests within a ten mile radius of here...


Surely the CAA can't expect PILOTS to use common sense :twisted:

Anyway, for practising PFLs... but is that a different subject?
User avatar
By Johnno
#371374
I suppose it all depends upon what the CAA classes as a "structure". Which was my original question - is a wall one?!

I'm too tired for this! :lol:

(Just as a note - neither myself or LW were intending on breaking the rule, whether it applies or not!)
By Crash one
#371380
If you were to fly over aforementioned birds nest at less than 500 ft then in order to prosecute for this hienous crime the CAA would require a reliable witness.
Said witness would have to be further than 500ft from the scene of the crime otherwise they would become the object of a second crime. Unless said witness was the owner of the nest, ie:- not a "person".
Do the CAA accept testimonies from birds?
Is this the "daft half hour"?

Seriously I would think a structure would be a building designed to house people. A single wall on an open moor is hardly that.
Last edited by Crash one on Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.