Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By Antjrice
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1995825
I had a new experience yesterday during my solo circuits (lots of circuit traffic) which i'm still processing so I would appreciate some experienced perspectives.

The conditions were as follows:

* 5 aircraft in the circuit and 3 (of which i was the last) fairly close by (to my low houred mind). All are flying touch-and-gos
* Downwind is being extended by the pilots to improve separation so at one point, there are 4 on final at the same time
* ATC issues a go-around to a couple of pilots (including me) and allows the others to touch and go with a message which IIRC sounded something like "clear to touch and go which will be unimpeded"

Here are my questions:
* As i go-around, i overfly the aircraft that was ahead of me. I assume that ATC is managing separation which ensures the aircraft ahead has decended, slowed on landing/take off and then is climbing at a vector which is going to ensure is climbing to a safe postion behind me? Of course, i understand that the PICs are responsable for safe conduct but there is simply going to be an extended period of time where we have no way of seeing each other. Am I imagining sequence this correctly?

* If I was at an uncontrolled airfield and this situation occurs, would the options be as follows:
* I have the experience and appreciation of speed and distance to ensure that the above happens if I go around and overfly a landing (albeit T&G) aircraft ensuring safe separation and no risk of collision with the climbing aircraft?
* If for any reason, I did not feel confident in the above, I should climb straight out of the ATZ (say to 2000ft) and then look to re-join the circuit?

I hope this makes sense, I'm trying to unpack a lot of new mental experience relatively soon after it occured.
Last edited by Antjrice on Sun Jan 07, 2024 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1995834
Oooh, at my uncontrolled airfield the Go Around should be performed by flying parallel but just to the right of the rwy (I should say deadside), specifically to allow visual with the situation and separation from possible conflict. Also, ensure safe height so as not to conflict with possible traffic on XW!

I find spacing the most difficult, mainly because if other ac take a wider circuit you get stuffed trying to slow down without also extending and making it all a big mess for others. I haven't yet exited the circuit to start again, as it were, but I perhaps should have on one occasion, although no harm was done! Experience gives you more options but, personally, I'd still benefit from more advice in busy situations.
Something else to work on!
Last edited by T6Harvard on Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Antjrice
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1995838
Thank you @T6Harvard!

Your answer just made me pull out Pooley's APM Vol.1. (perhaps i should've done that first....).

It states clearly in the Airmanship/Threat and Error Management paragraph, "It is usual, once established in the go-around, to move slightly to one side of the runway (pref deadside) so that you have a view of aeroplanes that may be operating off the runway and beneath you"

Daft question - simple answer, just like I like it :D
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By T67M
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1995865
Whilst the APM is absolutely correct for the "standard" process, also be aware that some (arguably too many) airfields now have local procedures which override the standard process. For example, at my home airfield, there is no "deadside" as helicopters fly the opposite circuit to fixed-wing aircraft, and "overhead" fixed-wing joins are flown inside the live-side circuit. The "go around" is therefore normally flown directly above the runway, with ATC providing traffic information and separation as required. Properly pre-briefing the procedures at any airfields you are visiting is essential if you are not to be caught out by these non-standard local procedures.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1995875
It makes sense in a go-around, regardless of local procedures to just step a fraction to the right so you can look down and see the runway: This isn't going to impinge on the dead side as you are still only just out of 'overhead ' the runway, where there will be no other traffic. IMHO.
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By David Wood
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1995887
Although this wasn't the OP's question I will beat the drum, forgive me, on the issue of Go-Arounds which are, in my view, one of the least-well taught and least-well flown procedures in GA.

Preach mode on.

What many/most/almost all GA pilots do when they Go Around is simply apply power and level off. Some even continue to descend, albeit more slowly.

The Go Around is a direct transition from descending flight in the landing configuration to CLIMBING flight in a clean configuration. The bit that is too often missing is the Climbing bit.

The mantra I teach is "Pitch-Up/Power-Up*; Clean-Up; then (and only then) Speak Up. The talkie bit is the least important bit.

*some debate as whether pitch-up should precede power-up or vice versa. The reality is that in the context of piston-engined light aeroplanes they should both happen more or less simultaneously.

Preach mode off.
Sorry
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By ericgreveson
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1995897
Aside from how to perform the go-around itself (as described above, a climb back up to circuit height - I was taught to apply full power first, reach climb speed and then pitch for climb - getting rid of flap in stages) - there is another consideration which is worth thinking about.

You mentioned overflying the aircraft in front of you as it does its touch and go. I would probably avoid this for a couple of reasons:
* you won't be able to keep it in sight (especially in low wing aircraft)
* what if that aircraft also needs to go around for some reason? They'll be climbing back up underneath you!
* what if they're a faster aircraft? They might catch up with you in the climb.

The main exception I can think of is if the other aircraft ahead is landing, once they're down to taxi speed I would be comfortable overflying them (with an offset from centreline to keep them in view). Or perhaps if ATC instructed me to do it and I thought it was safe to do so.

However, I'm not an instructor, just a low hours PPL on the internet, so this is definitely something worth debriefing with your instructor!
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By seanxair
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1995899
I happened to be able to watch a selection of Go Arounds today as it is something I'm likely to have to do now I'm based at a busier airfield. They were pretty varied though all started off just to the right of the runway in use. None managed to reach the crosswind end of the runway as it is 1100m away but they all looked to be well or possibly below circuit height. However a variety of very tight to very wide tracks were flown with most rejoining the downwind leg at what appeared to be below circuit height which may only have been a visual misconception on my part. One flew a seriously tight turn from almost the active runway threshold (runway occupied) and rejoined on very short final which was interesting!

So I too would like some advice on what to do as I wasn't taught any 'standard' procedure to carry one out. :oops:
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1995906
Pitch (well) up first,fractionally before full power, as, considering the purpose of the G/A is to get you away from the surly bonds as fast as possible, if you still happen to be the slightest bit nose-down, those (milli)seconds of power first, will propel you inexorably and ever faster towards the earth before you pitch up.

Which is not a good thing...................... :wink:
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By Antjrice
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1995909
ericgreveson wrote:You mentioned overflying the aircraft in front of you as it does its touch and go. I would probably avoid this for a couple of reasons:
* you won't be able to keep it in sight (especially in low wing aircraft)
* what if that aircraft also needs to go around for some reason? They'll be climbing back up underneath you!
* what if they're a faster aircraft? They might catch up with you in the climb.

The main exception I can think of is if the other aircraft ahead is landing, once they're down to taxi speed I would be comfortable overflying them (with an offset from centreline to keep them in view). Or perhaps if ATC instructed me to do it and I thought it was safe to do so.


These points are the basis of my questions, albeit I found the answer i was looking for in terms of moving over slightly on the deadside so I can see what's going on - appreciate this may not answer the low wing aspect. Since this action was under ATC instruction, this is why i feel they were controlling the separation to prevent the threats you describe.

I suspose there is also the possibility that the tower recinded the aircraft in front's T&G and asked them to make it to land and taxi back around, but if so i didn't hear that. A few pilots advised they wanted to orbit and the tower advised not too as they had aircraft behind them.

In terms of the questions on executing the go-around itself, i've been taught to power up, pitch up, achieve +ve rate of climb and then clean up one stage at a time, returning to circuit height at best rate of climb, which is often nearly at or just after the crosswind turn, (when flying RWY 02 at Shoreham anyway since the helicopter circuit has now increased the fixed wing crosswind turn altitude to 750ft.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1995922
Go around for us goes:

Level off
Full power
Retract landing flap
Pitch up
Gear up
Flaps up
Climb power

Somewhere in the middle of all that drift slightly to right so runway visible if VMC

Then either rejoin circuit or follow instrument missed approach procedure.
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By Rob P V2.0
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1995923
This is one of those classic eventualities that it is far too easy to overthink

Yes position to the right.

Yes get full power on soonest

Yes clean up the airframe

Choose staying in the circuit (default) or clearing off and allowing the chaos to subside.

Do use the radio, but keep it snappy. I would always use aircraft type "Van's X-ray Bravo climbing crosswind"

Rob P V2.0
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By Antjrice
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1995924
AndyR wrote:There is no separation at Shoreham other than visually, by the pilot.


:thumleft:

I think I see that now. If I’d moved over to the right like i was supposed to, this wouldn't have even entered my mind.
By Cessna571
FLYER Club Member (reader)  FLYER Club Member (reader)
#1995928
I agree that it’s “pref” dead side.

Our circuit has GA left hand and Warbirds right hand. Also, you can have a warbird leaving the grass to your right if you go around from the hard runway on the left.
(This happens more than you’d think as they wait on the grass while you are on final to the hard)

Moving to the dead side could end in tears.

The solution is easy, do what seems sensible, but be verbose on the radio…

G-XXXX going around, to the south of the hard runway.

Makes it obvious to everyone where you’ll be.