Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By 4535jacks
#1911785
I am a IR holder but one thing I found lacking on the course was the planning of IFR flights. i want to resolve this and increase my confidence in conducting IFR flights.

Therefore I am planning a flight between EGSC and EGBJ. The aircraft has no anti-ice so FIKI is not possible. The aircraft is RNAV capable. It is also unpressurised so I will limit my altitude to FL090. My plan is to fly as close to FL090 as the freezing level (plus safety margin) allows.

These are the three options I would like feedback on from the more experienced IFR pilots:

1. EGSC DCT EGBJ at FL090. Can I fly direct between EGSC and EGBJ at any FL up to FL090? this will take me through the CTA but I am assuming I will get clearance to do this prior departure and will be passed on to London Control shortly after departure with the instruction to remain clear until cleared by London Control. If I select this option I will need to file an FPL. With no SID for EGSC, I am concerned about the departure as I will need to intercept the GPS track. I would prefer to route via a reporting point near EGSC to ensure I am on track.

2. EGSC BEDFO EMKUK EGBJ at FL060. This will keep me out of the CTA if I stay below FL065. If below FL065 I will remain in Class G and so would not need to file an FPL but if vis is low, I will need a traffic or deconfliction service and I am concerned about coverage and capacity of ATS units to provide this service. I have never done an IFR flight completely outside of CAS and so I am unsure whether I will simply be handed off between different controllers from departure to approach like in CAS or whether I need to plan and call ATS' en route like during a VFR flight. I could fly at FL090 also but would need to file as it goes through the CTA.

3. EGSC EBOTO DTY EGBJ at FL090. With no SID from EGSC, this would give me an initial reporting point to fly to. It would pass though the CTA so I would need to file. This is the suggested Route Rocket. EBOTO is the preferred outbound route from EGSC for Westbound departures but since I won't technically be flying on an airway but rather flying DCT reporting points, do i still need to route via EBOTO as it is a bit of a dog leg?

if you were flying this from Cambridge to Gloucester and had an IR, what route would you take?
By TomWW
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911808
I probably wouldn't fly that in airways. Just not worth it. Even if you are cleared to climb into CAS on track to EBOTO you would leave CAS (Daventry CTA21) before EBOTO. Then you need to get re cleared into CAS (Daventry CTA13) again at that height.

DCT takes you through Hinton drop zone. Generally you will get cleared to enter "on track to" or "in the climb direct to". Just going direct doesn't make that easy for them. A distinct entry, and exit, point is good.

I'm quite happy flying IFR outside CAS in IMC. I will ask for a traffic service if available. But supposedly there has never been a civilian MAC in IMC.

If you are planning this for practice I would suggest going somewhere else. If its a genuine journey you need to take then I would suggest just flying like a VFR trip. ie outside CAS.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911813
In a non pressurised, non turbocharged piston single there is no meaningful airways flying in the UK.

The DCT track is entirely unencumbered by CAS so I would choose the altitude depending on wind and cloud base, freezing level.

When flying, other than for bimbling or training, is about getting as efficient as possible from A to B.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911819
If you want to plan an IFR flight inside controlled airspace you need to go further than that. I used to commute Kemble to Fowlmere diverting to Cambridge or Gloucester in bad weather and my IMCR was more than adequate.

For airways or other CAS routing then Autorouter is your friend.

This one of the reasons I always say that I learned nothing of use on the expensive and long winded IR course that I didn't already know from being a current IMCR flier.
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By 4535jacks
#1911821
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:In a non pressurised, non turbocharged piston single there is no meaningful airways flying in the UK.

The DCT track is entirely unencumbered by CAS so I would choose the altitude depending on wind and cloud base, freezing level.

When flying, other than for bimbling or training, is about getting as efficient as possible from A to B.



The aircraft is turbo-charged but is an unpressuried single.
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By 4535jacks
#1911823
johnm wrote:If you want to plan an IFR flight inside controlled airspace you need to go further than that. I used to commute Kemble to Fowlmere diverting to Cambridge or Gloucester in bad weather and my IMCR was more than adequate.

For airways or other CAS routing then Autorouter is your friend.

This one of the reasons I always say that I learned nothing of use on the expensive and long winded IR course that I didn't already know from being a current IMCR flier.



Autoroute generated the following IFR route:

EGSC N0100F060 EBOTO DCT DTY L10 HON EGBJ
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911855
Sadly , although an IR holder for well over ten years , an FAA/IR holder for 20yrs and an IMCR holder for 25, I now rarely, especially since Covid, find the chance to fly IFR and annual renewal becomes a bit of a struggle , requiring pretty intensive pre-test 'revision'........

I agree with @johnm that IR training ,even at a well-known school doesn't prepare you for the en-route planning bit which is of necessity picked up on the hoof, with the help and encouragement of members of PPL/IR and Auto router.(special shout-out for @2Ds from FF).

If you're gonna do loadsa IFR the the subscription Rocket Route is also excellent but worked out too expensive for my meagre needs.

However I do agree that Autorouter gives the best solution, and in my case and has got me happily across near Europe and back sans problème................ :wink:

BTW your route above looks good to me: Though there is no SID from Cambridge, if you are going South or East they will often take you to ADNAM (rarely ABBOT) to get you round the top and to the East of Stansted before chucking you at the mercy of London: you can tear up any flight plan you may have made while they vector you all around Will's mother's. :lol:

Good luck.
Last edited by PeteSpencer on Wed May 18, 2022 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911857
Autoroute generated the following IFR route:

EGSC N0100F060 EBOTO DCT DTY L10 HON EGBJ


You can file that and might even fly that but usually the route you file is merely to placate the Eurocontrol computer once in the air ATC will generally send you somewhere else entirely and in the UK that may or may not be preferable......
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By Flyingfemme
#1912044
There is no "method" for IFR flying in small, non-pressurised GA in the UK. The airways are set up for "important stuff" shuttling between major airports and paying big fees. Usually easiest to stay out of class A and swap to "real IFR" at the international border when required.
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