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#1911824
@FlyingBoot

No, it makes no sense at all, as was established in the original thread the ATCO has messed up placing the recipient in an impossible situation.

Though I agree with your decision on the response, nobody can point to Peter's choice and say he is wrong either.

Rob P
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#1911826
It's simple really. By standby what the controller means is "don't pass your message yet, I'm not ready to handle your request".
So two seconds to acknowledge the squawk code, which he does not need to respond further to, while he's doing something else, is not an issue.

Here's a test of the rule:
Once on departure after hand over from Tower the response I got from Radar was,
"G-XXXX remain outside controlled airspace and stand by"
Given that I was inside controlled airspace, what should I have done? He'd clearly made a mistake but I couldn't tell him without breaking the rule not to say anything after being told to standby.
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By rikur_
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911828
The last thing the ATCO instructs is effectively "shut-up until asked to speak again" By reading back you are (deliberately and willfully) ignoring the last instruction given by the ATCO are you not?

You are assuming that subsequent instructions override the requirement to acknowledge the earlier instructions. Instead of regarding it as a hierarchy, you could think of it as a sequence of instructions.
Take a common one:
"Descend with the ILS, and contact tower on 118.625"

By your logic you'd say the instruction to contact tower trumps the requirement to provide a read back on the ILS clearance presumably?
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#1911830
lobstaboy wrote:It's simple really. By standby what the controller means is "don't pass your message yet, I'm not ready to handle your request".
So two seconds to acknowledge the squawk code, which he does not need to respond further to, while he's doing something else, is not an issue.

Here's a test of the rule:
Once on departure after hand over from Tower the response I got from Radar was,
"G-XXXX remain outside controlled airspace and stand by"
Given that I was inside controlled airspace, what should I have done? He'd clearly made a mistake but I couldn't tell him without breaking the rule not to say anything after being told to standby.


That's awkward.

If I was about to exit CAS in the next minute or so, I'd just shut up and keep it pointed. Otherwise, I'd reply something like " G-XXXX unable to comply, awaiting instructions G-XXXX" keep it pointed as planned and wait for the controller work out what they wanted from who and in what order until (and if) I needed something.

No idea if that would pass a test but the RT test does imply that the controller is perfect, which she isn't. As commander, we're still in control and that is my entire defence M'lud.
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By rikur_
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911833
lobstaboy wrote:Given that I was inside controlled airspace, what should I have done? He'd clearly made a mistake but I couldn't tell him without breaking the rule not to say anything after being told to standby.

I'd think about the situation in context, and it's apparent the controller has incorrectly assumed that I'm an inbound aircraft, and probably told me to standby because he's expecting a handover of departure from Tower - i.e. me. I'd correct his/her mistake.
#1911834
lobstaboy wrote:What should you do if you know you haven't heard the squark code correctly?



Press the 'last message' button on your radio of course.

Jeez, you guys make it so difficult :lol:

Rob P
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#1911841
rikur_ wrote:
"Descend with the ILS, and contact tower on 118.625"

By your logic you'd say the instruction to contact tower trumps the requirement to provide a read back on the ILS clearance presumably?


But you are required to readback a change in altitude, which is what the 'Descend with ILS' is and the change in frequency. So both are read back. There is no problem with my logic here. You have not been asked to standby.

To put the original one into better context, wouldn't the ATCO transmit "G-ABCD, squawk 4567" if they wanted you to readback. Response is "Squawk 4567, G-ABCD". You say absolutely nothing else. An additional standby instruction from the ATCO after your readback would just emphasis Say Nothing but isn't required.

lobstaboy wrote:Here's a test of the rule:
Once on departure after hand over from Tower the response I got from Radar was,
"G-XXXX remain outside controlled airspace and stand by"
Given that I was inside controlled airspace, what should I have done? He'd clearly made a mistake but I couldn't tell him without breaking the rule not to say anything after being told to standby.


Well in this case I would tend to agree with @eltonioni. If you are at the edge of controlled space just get out and keep quiet. Maybe you are a mile out in your position calculation. If you know you are well within controlled airspace the ATCO has either misidentified you or there is a problem with radar which needs highlighting urgently. I would argue this trumps the 'Standby' as there is a possible danger of collision. Similarly for Urgency or Distress before you ask.
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By rikur_
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911842
FlyingBoot wrote:
To put the original one into better context, wouldn't the ATCO transmit "G-ABCD, squawk 4567" if they wanted you to readback. Response is "Squawk 4567, G-ABCD". You say absolutely nothing else.

If only all GA pilots behaved like that in real life, then this would never have arisen.

Good luck with finding the definitive answer, the weather's too nice to spend the rest of the day on the forum!
#1911861
rikur_ wrote:
lobstaboy wrote:Given that I was inside controlled airspace, what should I have done? He'd clearly made a mistake but I couldn't tell him without breaking the rule not to say anything after being told to standby.

I'd think about the situation in context, and it's apparent the controller has incorrectly assumed that I'm an inbound aircraft, and probably told me to standby because he's expecting a handover of departure from Tower - i.e. me. I'd correct his/her mistake.


Yes that what I did and nobody fussed at all.
They're human and helpful (mostly). Just don't waffle on telling your life story on the radio until they ask you to when they're obviously busy is all.
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By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911869
You need to think of the human element and context for the call to understand why "and standby" is added. If you are calling D&D you are probably having a bad day, so want to tell someone about it. By saying "and standby" it allows the controller to tell you that they know you want more from them (such as a position) but they can't give it to you straight away so they will get back to you (it also then gives the computer time to find the squawk you just set anywhere in the UK).
The rules say you must read back the squawk - so that is what is expected and you do - but don't ask anything else and recognise that the controller is still going to come back to you - you aren't being ignored. You also aren't being expected to now start transmitting for VDF triangulation.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911948
Last time this came up, it was agreed by ATCers that what was wanted was for you to read back the squawk then shut up, but also it was agreed by ATCers that it was a rubbish instruction which could cause confusion and shouldn't be used - thus is highly unlikely to come up in an RT practical test!
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