Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1899350
IWF wrote:In my case it was having deviation described as being -5 degrees west that still confuses me

It confuses me too. When I learned, deviation was X degrees east or west; there was no sign as well.

Has the notation changed?

If not, and -5 degrees west really means 5 degrees east, then that's either a typo (inexcusable) or a bit of arbitrary and pointless mental gymnastics.

Has anyone seen the sign included in the notation for deviation before?
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By Dusty_B
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1899351
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:
I've never yet failed one but that was more due to exam training than personal brilliance, worst was HP for UK CPL. Bonkers.


HPL, Gatwick, 2003. I walked out of the room after 9 minutes. And I had doubled checked my answers. Twice. 100%. There wasn’t a single question on that paper that I hadn’t seen in the preceding two weeks of brush-up.
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By Andrew Sinclair
#1899410
I don’t understand the issue.

Schools that host the ATPL exams have for many years had question feedback forms directly outside the exam rooms that were/are used by applicants to reproduce the questions from memory and those then go into their own subscription based QB and debated over and over both on line and offline…or did I misunderstand something?

Practising exam techniques using questions, which closely match the type found in the actual exam, is very legitimate preparation.

I am not surprised that the feedback on the failed questions is not helpful, as mentioned here before there are no LOs, there are simple headings with no real detail at all. I have spent over 900 hrs over the last 7 months figuring out what possibly should and should not be included under the LO headings.

Very bizarre way of assessing knowledge acquisition IMVHO.

I certainly would never advocate any form of cheating, if that’s the approach that some are taking then there is a wider discussion on the potential pilot’s personality type and potential rulebreaking in other areas of their flying, which could lead to more serious safety consequences.

What always makes me chuckle is those that offer week long zero-to-hero courses that result in 9 eExam passes. I am completely convinced the material cannot be properly presented and absorbed in a week it takes at least 100hrs + exam prep. and actual eExams to give it the proper focus that PPL ground school deserves. I always note these course always make sure that the blurb says the student should conduct significant pre-course study - :roll:
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By lobstaboy
#1899421
Andrew Sinclair wrote:I don’t understand the issue.

Schools that host the ATPL exams have for many years had question feedback forms directly outside the exam rooms that were/are used by applicants to reproduce the questions from memory and those then go into their own subscription based QB and debated over and over both on line and offline…or did I misunderstand something?

Practising exam techniques using questions, which closely match the type found in the actual exam, is very legitimate preparation.



There’s a big difference between recognising actual questions when you sit the exams and having practiced questions of the type in the exam. One is parroting the answer the other is showing you understand the topic.
Why is that difference so hard for people to understand?
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By Andrew Sinclair
#1899425
There’s a big difference between recognising actual questions when you sit the exams and having practiced questions of the type in the exam. One is parroting the answer the other is showing you understand the topic.
Why is that difference so hard for people to understand?


I cannot speak for others but for me it is not difficult to understand. I had not recognised that we were discussing actual questions from an actual exam being posted on line. I suppose I should have done but to err is human.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1899443
lobstaboy wrote:And as I keep saying - you need to know this stuff, not simply to pass the exams but because you actually need to know this stuff…


Do we though? Really? In 26 years of flying I've never needed to know all that stuff about flags, balls on poles, dumbells, or, really speaking, even the signal square. I hope you don't actually need to know all that stuff about the Chicago, Montreal or Geneva (!) conventions or whatever they are as they weren't in the syllabus when I did mine. I can't remember the last time I worked out the weight of my fuel on a whizzwheel!

I'm sure there was a lot covered in the exams which I've since forgotten.

And I'm sure it only gets worse if you do the CPL theory to be an instructor...
By archerflyer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1899459
Andrew Sinclair wrote:
What always makes me chuckle is those that offer week long zero-to-hero courses that result in 9 eExam passes. I am completely convinced the material cannot be properly presented and absorbed in a week it takes at least 100hrs + exam prep. and actual eExams to give it the proper focus that PPL ground school deserves. I always note these course always make sure that the blurb says the student should conduct significant pre-course study - :roll:


I've been curious as to how those intense courses do it. Having done the syllabus around 10 years ago, this time round I was 124 hours (they have a convenient total time count) on easy ground school, plus reading the Pooleys books cover to cover.

perhaps I'm just slow.
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1899461
archerflyer wrote:I've been curious as to how those intense courses do it.

Pick a student, crowd fund here, find out!
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1899493
@archerflyer . I agree. I've taken lots of time on EasyPPL. I'm old and haven't studied for years, so it is taking time to bash the stuff into my brain.
I am finding it easier as I get more done -
possibly because the skill of learning is coming back to me,
possibly because at first every bit of jargon also had to be learnt on top of everything else, but that is also sinking in now.

Mainly, I've spent time really understanding it for future reference, rather than just cramming for an exam. I need to know it and I want to know it.

I have to say, the thought that prior to the E-exams all the exams seem to have been a rotation of 3 papers, and it was commonly known what the questions would be, scares me.

I'm glad to be learning the full volume of stuff now #weird
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By Milty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1899505
I also fail to see how you could possibly do justice to the subjects with an intensive course.

I'm 47 and been out of study for a long time so have struggled a bit to get into the more 'dry' topics. I don't consider myself to be dim - I run a company of 46 people and have an engineering degree and a historical interest in flying from teen years in air cadets.

My study regime is not the best - only EasyPPL ground school and at times dual screening so it could and should have been quicker and better quality study. My stats from EasyPPL are below. It's not going to be fully correct times as there will be times when I've just left the page open - I'm not sure how long it takes before EasyPPL defines you as being inactive. It's shocked me a bit to see how long I've spent on it so far (just procrastinating/pretending to study Met now). I can see why my wife is moaning... I heard but didn't listen when my instructor suggested circa 100-150 hours of private study. Lesson learned there to listen and take heed of what wise folk say.

But, I'm comfortable that I'm trying to retain some of the important bits and not just retaining for the exam. I agree with some posts above that I couldn't really care when some treaty was signed what ATIS stands for but if the CAA want to waste a question on that, I'll take the easy wins too. Overall, I suspect that the E-exams are harder but it's a positive to help minimise cheating.

Image
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By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1899506
IWF wrote:In my case it was having deviation described as being -5 degrees west that still confuses me


I'm not surprised... It is either Deviation -5deg or Deviation 5deg West.

The above should not be allowed and should be highlighted as bolleaux!!!

Regards, SD..
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1899854
Years ago, when I did 'Primary' exams for post graduate (Not flying) fellowships of some of the Colleges, the pass rate was in the order of 25-30 % .
I'm talking 1970s pre computerisation but with negative scoring (mark deducted for every wrong answer) so it was an expensive business to fail and with only a limited number of re-takes before permanent curtains.

Everybody therefore went on cram style courses, not to learn stuff, more so as to gain an admission ticket to the next phase of training torture.

Just prior to the exam, the tutor would issue each one of us with a stamped addressed (to him) postcard and instructions to, at the end of the exam for each one of us to memorise a given question number and its (multiple choice) answer options and immediately on leaving the exam hall to write it down and post it back to him.

That was the only way he could build up a question bank for teaching .

All's fair in love and war/exams :shock:

The FAA publish a list of all its PPL and IR questions I understand..............
By Rjk983
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1901590
nickwilcock wrote:
It was the lamentable lack of security and level of cheating in UK PPL exams which led to the current e-Exam system and requirement for invigilation by Ground Examiners.


This isn’t a troll post, I’m genuinely interested, can you point me towards any evidence of this prolific cheating? Is there a publicly available document or research that details the lack of security and the cheating going on?

My very limited sample size of one flying training organisation was that it was extremely secure, the CFI was the ground examiner, and he had a locked filing cabinet in the reception area where it was constantly visible to all. The only time I ever saw it opened was when he got an exam out or put it back. I can’t speak for the times that I wasn’t there, but the reception desk did have CCTV as the tea fund honesty box was on the counter…

He checked the exam paper before issuing it to ensure it had no marks. He sat in the room where the exam was taken to ensure there was no cheating.

He checked there were no marks on the exam paper and materials before he put them back in the envelope and locked them up. Only once the exam was back in the cabinet did he discuss the exam with us and point us towards the study material to revisit if we got anything wrong.

It is a shame that this was not the normal experience and the general lack of integrity in both the student and examiner population required far more secure measures to be introduced.

nickwilcock wrote:
Anyone caught cheating or distributing actual questions and answers will be dealt with very harshly and quite rightly so.


I totally agree with this, But again, how many people have been caught? And what sanctions are available when caught? I presume it is clear cut for any examiners who allow cheating, they will presumably have their licence revoked? How is this done?
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By NDB_hold
#1901677
My exams (2001) were not invigilated, although the paper was checked for marks and I was checked for only having appropriate equipment with me before I was sent up to the (deserted) control tower at Welshpool to take them. The fine view of the airfield wasn’t a distraction as we did this on unflyable days…
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1901705
When I did the IR exams at the Belgrano the rule was that one candidate got their Jepp file (an allowed exam extra for the Nav exam) taken away for inspection at the beginning of the exam and was given a CAA copy for the duration .

Muggins was in the front row ( you guessed) and my copy was taken .

One of the questions always involved a plot on the S Ireland chart and when I unfolded the chart there was a 1 cm hole at that point where million candidates before had shoved their dividers.

When I pointed this out to the invigilator she promptly gave me my Jepp back and all was sweetness and light :P