Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

#1886592
Ok slightly inflammatory subject line but it's something I've heard and read.

My advice is to 'always be talking to someone' so outside CAS / transits I do - the London FIR usually and it's interesting too. But as my training progressed it was interesting to hear what experienced pilots do. Some I think sit on 7000 and do as I do but others (many perhaps?) don't do anything at all and presumably rely on the mark one eyeball and fair enough.

I'd like to know what do others do

(And is BS BS or is that an old can of worms it's best left unopened? I am tempted to ask why though to gauge the real level of 'comfort' to take from it i.e. relying on looking out for 100% of safety but with a BS backup seems logical and 'feels' right but should it give such confidence? )

Thank you.
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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1886601
My advice is that in the absence of anyone better to talk to/listen out on, then listen out on London Info rather than call them for a BS, unless you actually need them for something. They can not give any specific traffic info other than 'be advised there is a ballon even at xxxx' or 'we have reports that there is a lot of activity south of xxx'

It's bloody infuriating on a busy day when you are trying to get a flight plan activated or an airways clearance and the frequency is totally cluttered up with people longwindedly asking for .... nothing.
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By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1886603
This all stems from the fragmented nature of ATC services in the UK. Basic Service, Traffic Service and Deconfliction Service are unique to the UK.

In sensible countries ATC is joined up and the term is Flight Information Service

Monitoring London Info or using listening squawks with ATC units is just as useful as a Basic Service in terms of getting a picture of what's going on. Listening squawks are typically more localised and so potentially better.

I will always seek a Traffic Service which is the equivalent of a "proper" Flight Information Service but it's often difficult to get especially on a busy weekend.
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#1886606
GrahamB wrote:My advice is that in the absence of anyone better to talk to/listen out on, then listen out on London Info rather than call them for a BS, unless you actually need them for something. They can not give any specific traffic info other than 'be advised there is a ballon even at xxxx' or 'we have reports that there is a lot of activity south of xxx'

It's bloody infuriating on a busy day when you are trying to get a flight plan activated or an airways clearance and the frequency is totally cluttered up with people longwindedly asking for .... nothing.


That is absolutely perfect and exactly the sort of real-world gen I was after. Thank you.
#1886607
johnm wrote:This all stems from the fragmented nature of ATC services in the UK. Basic Service, Traffic Service and Deconfliction Service are unique to the UK.

In sensible countries ATC is joined up and the term is Flight Information Service

I will always seek a Traffic Service which is the equivalent of a "proper" Flight Information Service but it's often difficult to get especially on a busy weekend.


Thank you. TS is something I need to try,.
#1886610
TrickyWoo wrote:
GrahamB wrote:My advice is that in the absence of anyone better to talk to/listen out on, then listen out on London Info rather than call them for a BS, unless you actually need them for something. They can not give any specific traffic info other than 'be advised there is a ballon even at xxxx' or 'we have reports that there is a lot of activity south of xxx'

It's bloody infuriating on a busy day when you are trying to get a flight plan activated or an airways clearance and the frequency is totally cluttered up with people longwindedly asking for .... nothing.


That is absolutely perfect and exactly the sort of real-world gen I was after. Thank you. (And listening on the FIR is what we've been doing. Great to hear one aircraft over Wales and another heading east of SHM, all from just 3,000ft above the Cotswolds
#1886611
As your flying progresses you will reach your own mode of radio use. There is no right and wrong, so whatever you decide on (within reason) is fine.

Myself I rarely bother with Basic Service anyway, it offers you nothing. But if no service is available for a predicted period of time I just tune to the next frequency I am likely to need and turn the sound down or the radio off until I am close enough to use that frequency to garner information by listening in.

London Info is a comedy show for the listener, so no reason why you shouldn't listen to it. I rarely do, I get frustrated with its misuse and the overlong life stories.

The aircraft is not supported in flight by radio waves. You don't have to have the constant background babble.

Rob P
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1886614
TrickyWoo wrote:(And is BS BS or is that an old can of worms it's best left unopened? I am tempted to ask why though to gauge the real level of 'comfort' to take from it i.e. relying on looking out for 100% of safety but with a BS backup seems logical and 'feels' right but should it give such confidence? )

*Very* occasionally on a Basic Service you *might* get a warning of something very close from a LARS controller (which London Info is not).

If (s)he happens to be looking at the right moment. And happens to be anxious about what (s)he sees. And isn't already on the phone, or talking to someone else.

Don't expect it, much less rely on it, even a little bit.
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By AndyR
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1886617
Tune next frequency and put it in standby having dialled in 121.500 to listen to.


and enjoy the peace and quiet, maintaining a good lookout.

Others will insist that is reckless, even that the aircraft cannot possibly fly without talking to someone, anyone. Or that a Basic Service should be the minimum, even though a service of that type is of limited use with regard to traffic. London Info is great for activating flight plans, for getting the weather at your destination and so on, but particularly on a busy good weather day can offer little for situational awareness.

However, whilst you are still a student I’d suggest you either speak to London Info or a local radar unit, or alternatively use a relevant listening squawk. As that will be the expectation on your test.
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#1886621
I tend to agree with @AndyR and @Rob P on this. You will find (I hope) that flying is more fun without the constant chatter. So the answer to the question in your thread title is "nobody - turn it off"
But you definitely need to be happy and confident using the radio, so having it on while you're a student is good. And, as said, your instructor is likely to encourage that.
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By rikur_
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1886625
This is an area I've recently had to adapt to. For many years flying in the Vale of York it was a choice of which of the many overlapping LARS services or other local units to talk to (Leeming, Linton, Church Fenton, Teesside, Humberside, Leeds, Donny) - gradually the mil have closed, and others reduced their hours, so often there is no one appropriate to talk to.

So go back to the principles of why talk to anyone in the first place:
1) To be warned of traffic
2) To have situational awareness of traffic
3) To be warned of airspace infringement
4) So I can tell them I'm crashing and send SAR
5) To notice I've crashed and send SAR
6) To get weather or other info
7) To check the radio still works / break the boredom

So that leaves me with:
1) Not available from ATC, so Skyecho and eyeballs it is
2) Listen out on the frequency others are likely to be on - e.g. if I'm passing near Sherburn-in-Elmet listen to them
3) Listening squawk (I only tend to use these if genuinely close and risk of error)
4) One touch D&D available if required, no need to talk to anyone
5) Ensure someone on the ground knows where I'm going, and that my phone and tablet are uploading GPS locations that person on ground can access
6) Scottish info if I'm far enough north to get away with it, I don't bother with London Info if further south
7) Practice pan

In general its become getting used to sitting back and enjoying the peace and quiet
Last edited by rikur_ on Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#1886626
AndyR wrote:Tune next frequency and put it in standby having dialled in 121.500 to listen to.


Bloody hell! Every day is a school day.

I had never for a moment thought of that as an operating mode. After a couple of occasions where I had turned the radio down and then forgotten to turn it up whilst making increasingly desperate calls to my next station (doubtless to the amusement of all the others on frequency) I generally turn it off all together. But that's a perfect solution. Thanks @AndyR :thumleft:

Rob P
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By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1886628
In Scottish FIR it's different. Basic service from Scottish Information is genuinely useful as is listening lot to the VHF low level Common Frequency.
So if not in need of a service, use a frequency monitoring code, talk to Scottish Info and monitor and broadcast on VHF Low level Common when in the appropriate area.
https://www.caa.co.uk/General-aviation/ ... ncy-Trial/
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