Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By Milty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877373
Prep yourselves for what maybe a stupid question and I’ll prep myself for a roasting.

I’m knee deep in air law and operational procedures study. It’s slowly starting to stick and I’ve passed several of the trial exams on EasyPPL. But… I’d be telling lies if I was confident to say that I ‘know’ air law. I might know enough to pass an exam (time will tell), but I don’t know if I know it deeply enough.

So, onto the question primarily aimed at those more experienced. In reality, would any of you pass an air law exam say 6 months after you passed it originally? Or does regular flying keep you sufficiently exposed to the important topics and some of the less prominent things fall by the wayside without any puppies being harmed.

A comparative example might be learning to drive. In 1991, I took my driving test and at the time, I knew braking distances perfectly and could recite most of the Highway Code/every road sign etc. Now, I couldn’t tell you what the braking distances are but do know the general rules and consider myself to be competent and safe. Despite not being able to recite the braking distances, I somehow manage to stop before driving into things.

So, GA equivalent example - in practice, am I going to be in major risk if I can’t remember ATC light signals (I could have them on my knee pad if needed)? Has anyone on the forum ever been intercepted? Or all of the aerodrome markings like the red square with a diagonal line or cross? Obviously, there are a lot of things that I will experience every flight like runway/taxiway markings etc. which are already as familiar as road markings. I suspect currency will almost be self policing but not sure. Airspace regulations I’m sure will stick more when I’ve had to get clearance to fly in a few.

In your opinion(s), are there specific air law and ops procedures topics that I should try to focus on knowing for life and others that won’t be a travesty if I retain the info for the exam and forget about it after the celebratory glass of rioja if I pass?

Thanks in advance.
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By VRB_20kt
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877381
Like so many exams, elements will stick with you. TBH, the various conventions and things like the carriage of spares on international flight don’t affect day-to-day domestic flying. But light signals can and signal squares persist and it’s as well to know as much as you can about things that could affect the safety of a flight.
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877389
Milty wrote:Prep yourselves for what maybe a stupid question and I’ll prep myself for a roasting.

It's not remotely a stupid question.

So, onto the question primarily aimed at those more experienced. In reality, would any of you pass an air law exam say 6 months after you passed it originally?

This one came up recently. I suspected (rightly as it turned out) that I'd have forgotten a lot of stuff, not least as some of the rules have changed a bit in the last 30 years.

So I signed up with EasyPPL and took advantage of their free offer, and took a couple of their tests. I failed one (just), passed another.

Did a bit of reading around the ones I got wrong, did about 20 more tests, and after three or four, was getting over 90% every time, and they were easy to rattle through in about 5 mins per test.

So yes, I've forgotten loads over the years, but that said, and to your specific point: at no time in the last 30 years (even with the rule changes) have I been breaking the law inadvertently with the flying that I do.

I've never been intercepted, and I never look at the signal square. If they don't give me a runway over the radio (if it's SafetyCom, for instance), I look at the windsock, which is more reliable. And if there's gliding, I already know because I've looked up the destination ahead of time.

I do revise the interception procedures when I fly abroad, which is infrequent enough that I need to.
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#1877396
A few months ago I was asked to update a a PPL Air Law theory course for a company and I noticed that I was reasonably knowledgable on matters which I frequently had to recollect and use when operationally flying (e.g. minimum height rules, RotA, marshalling signals etc) but had forgotten much of the knowledge that did not need to recollect frequently when flying (e.g. signals squares signs, VMC/VFR minima, when and where the International Convention on Civil Aviation was signed etc).

My conclusion is that knowledge is, to a certain degree, as perishable a commodity as skills are but knowing where to find the definitive information is quite important.
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By russp
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877457
Did Microlight Air Law about 8 years ago .. had then and have now no real clue on Light Signals***, Marshalling Signals* or intercept procedures**.. Signal squares I learnt and have subsequently forgotten - never needed any of these beyond what's obvious* in use anyway in my subsequent 400 hrs. (In fact I purposely didn't even bother learning marshalling as it was only ever going to be one question and I could afford to throw that one and it seemed like a lot of unnecessary stuff to learn when I was unlikely to need to know it.) If I really need them I have the skyway code on my ipad!
*Marshalling - go left - go right - stop is all you need to know in practice for GA
** I'd probably revise these if I was going abroad
*** If my radio fails I'm getting the tower on my phone!
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By jcal
#1877473
This is actually a really good question @Milty.

I've been in the same situation as you, studying for air law and op proc, and while I can practice enough easyppl exams to be fairly confident I'll pass, I wonder often if it's just thanks to the multiple-choice nature of the questions and I would not be able to remember them in a real life scenario.

That said I do think some of it has definitely stuck. Earlier on in my studies I did think a lot of the numbers and rules where highly unintuitive, but the same questions now feel a little more guessable and a kind of "feeling" of knowing what is usually right and what is usually wrong starts to sink in.

I'm hoping with time, even after taking the exam, exposure will bring me back to the material and recap it over and over again. Eventually, I'd hope it become more second nature. But like you say, some things we rarely get exposed to (interception, flare signals, etc), so I hope I remind myself to recap it on my own volition every few months.
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By Milty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877511
Thank you all. It's set my mind at rest that learning to pass this particular exam but not being able to remember everything forevermore is not going to be a major issue. I'm still finding my feet in the world of GA and getting a feel for what is 'normal'.

All feedback very much appreciated.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877536
I think the answer depends on the type of flying you do as to which bits you're going to need to know.

There are also "extra" bits you'll need to know as well, for example there are the SERA cloud separations and then there are the UK exemptions from SERA. There's the fact that the CAA sanctions and prosecutes people for ATZ infringements which are, to any sane and reasonable person, over and above what the law says or what the rule books say.

I've had light signals in the UK and in the US, the former for a radio failure, the latter for a complete electrical failure while within controlled airspace.
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By Milty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877572
Thank you. I think things like the light signals memory can easily be handled with a simple print-out on the knee pad and/or Skyway code on ipad.

I think ATZ clearances once I get into them should be something learned and retained by practice. My instructor has mentioned several times that soon we'll get over to Brize to practice some clearances through airspace and the 'typical' XC for Gloucester will include flights into Cardiff CTA and potentially Bristol too. I'm hoping to get down to Dunkeswell which was my 'childhood' aerodrome which unless I want to fly the long way round, I suspect I may need to transition Bristol (don't shoot me if this isn't correct - I've not started nav yet but the straight line from Gloucester to Dunkeswell goes through Bristol).

On the operational procedures front, is the wake turbulence section likely to be something I may need to retain? I'm quite happy to learn from experience though from this point onwards - you've all helped to calm my nerves a little on the exam front and learning just for the exam is not going to be a travesty. I'm sure the relevant and useful bits will stick where needed and practiced.
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By Milty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878213
Thank you. All good, common sense stuff.

I live and survive by the 2 second rule (as well as pilot assist on the car...)