Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By flyingearly
#1876182
This is a student question, although might be thought of as a postgraduate student question, as it were!

I have my NPPL(A) with Microlight Rating and fly a 3-axis (Zenair 601). I learnt on the C42, which can be (although 99% of the time isn't) registered as a Group A aircraft.

AIUI, there is still the option for me to 'upgrade' to SSEA from NPPL but the onward journey beyond that is still blocked and SSEA still limits the range of aircraft I can fly (in spite of lots of conversations over the past 24 months between various authorities - correct me if I am wrong?).

So, hypothetically - if I had some spare money, spare time and patience over the next couple of years - if I wanted to go back to square 1 and now obtain a PPL (rather than NPPL), my question is: what expectations should I have from that journey?

- I'm aware that this is 1 step back and then 2 steps forward
- Have any others done this (I assume it's not a common approach!)?
- I assume that none of my hours in my logbook today will count for anything
- I assume that - given I already hold a licence and am flying - it is not an unreasonable expectation that I might be able to pass closer to the minimum 45 hours?
- I assume that - as above and assuming competence - it is not an unreasonable expectation that I might be able to do the minimum 25 dual hours and can spend the rest solo hour-building?
- I assume that the dual hours have to be on the PPL syllabus and I can't spend that time doing off-piste things
like tailwheel training, aerobatics etc

Essentially, what I'm seeking some sort of feedback on is this: I'm aware that going back to the drawing board post NPPL is a bit of an odd choice, but thinking of the long term (wanting to fly IMC conditions, night rating, carry 3 passengers etc) although I made the right choice at the time to do NPPL, I'm thinking seriously about restarting from scratch given I've hopefully got 40+ more years of flying ahead of me (touch wood).

I'm not in any rush. If it takes 5 years then so be it - I'm still flying in the meantime. If the rules change during that time, I haven't lost much.

I do not want the above to sound over-confident and I'm obviously aware that there are differences between a 3-axis microlight and a Group A. But given my experience has been (mostly) on an aircraft that can be registered as a Group A, I just want to know what to expect if I decided to go down that route.

My thinking was that - in effect - alongside my usual day-to-day bimbling I can spend a couple of hours each month chipping away at 45 hours for a PPL and that - once I've ticked off the dual hours - in effect it's no different to renting a Group A aircraft for the remainder. And, given that I fly already, perhaps it would be possible to spend some of that dual time doing things that wouldn't ordinarily be on the syllabus.

This might be a very flawed plan, but all feedback very welcome. I doubt anyone has done this, but if you have I'd love to know what your experience was like.
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1876184
Winter cometh.... meaning by the time you finish a ppl, if there is anyone in the CAA or DfT who is not either playing in sandpits, or polishing a desk seat whilst thinking back how great Friday games night in tbe Mess were, or flying in Class A every flight, then there would be a unified upgrade and skill based licence ladder.
Sadly, I cannot guarantee there are such people, but my advice would be to wait and see, but include any simple enjoyable upgrade in the meantime... we micro to ssea for anyone not yet done it.
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By lobstaboy
#1876187
It’s your money, your time and your hobby. Do what works for you. It doesn’t matter if nobody else in history has taken the same approach.
Plus it’s all flying.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1876188
I can't really answer your questions as asked, but firstly SSEA - what is it you'd like to fly which you think you can't on an SSEA? IMC is another matter. :-)

What I think I'd personally recommend is to go SSEA and then see what happens over the next few months, maybe in the next year or so - there's a programme in progress to "right the wrongs" of EASA, and this should allow an upgrade path without having to start again. But as with everything regulatory, you may find it takes a while before it happens.
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By flyingearly
#1876190
Paul_Sengupta wrote:I can't really answer your questions as asked, but firstly SSEA - what is it you'd like to fly which you think you can't on an SSEA? IMC is another matter. :-)


Primarily, I'd like to be able to go flying when the weather locally is grey and overcast - and IMC/IR(R) rating to enable a longer trip would be useful.

Secondarily, I'd like to take my whole family away on trips. This won't be a common occasion, but now that everyone in the family has been up a few times, I'm starting to get comments (which are great!) as to how much of a shame it is we can't all go together (in fact, I'm being too generous here: the comments are actually slightly critical of me for being 'selfish' in choosing to learn in something that only allows one other passenger!)

Night rating etc nice-to-haves in the future, but not important.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1876191
I don't know how many people are in your family but you can fly up to three passengers with an NPPL SSEA.

Doesn't help with the IMC, but I'd still hold out for an upgrade path to a full PPL as the VFR flying you'll be able to do in the meantime should suffice until you're comfortable. Remember that to do instrument approaches the airfield you fly to will have to be suitably equipped. I got an IMC rating in 1997 but since I started flying from a farm strip, I let it lapse and have been pretty much VFR only for the past 20 years!
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1876197
There was someone (on here I think) who had a share in what was an easa aircraft, flying on a post-2018 nppl-ssea til 2020 lockdown, and of course emerged Summer 2020 to find Easa had screwed him and he could not fly his aircraft legally.
So he had a choice of full lapl course or sell up.... or, as I explained, wait for 2021 when we hoped it would be sorted. He didn't want to sell up and so spent a lot of money/time over Autumn / Winter and from memory either got to "skill test next" stage or actual skill test just as ssea became legal for his aircraft again..
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1876209
seanxair wrote:Can I fly abroad on my newly acquired SSEA rating? Or is that where it becomes complicated?


You can fly to France if you're flying a non-EASA/Part 21 aeroplane. If it's on an LAA permit and not homebuilt or historic you'll need permission, as will anyone flying such an aeroplane.

I think that's right?
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By seanxair
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1876214
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
seanxair wrote:Can I fly abroad on my newly acquired SSEA rating? Or is that where it becomes complicated?


You can fly to France if you're flying a non-EASA/Part 21 aeroplane. If it's on an LAA permit and not homebuilt or historic you'll need permission, as will anyone flying such an aeroplane.

I think that's right?


LAA homebuilt so hopefully ok. A few of us are looking at an Irish trip next year. NI to begin with and then ROI.
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By seanxair
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1876227
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
seanxair wrote:LAA homebuilt so hopefully ok. A few of us are looking at an Irish trip next year. NI to begin with and then ROI.


See here:

https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1864089#p1864089

And here:

https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=114954


Thanks Paul. I'd forgotten about the class 2 medical thing. Better get in the queue now...
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1876236
flyingearly wrote:Night rating etc nice-to-haves in the future, but not important.

night ratings are to be had on nppl-ssea now
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By TLRippon
#1878401
So Let me get this straight:

If you have an NPPL with SSEA rating and you want to upgrade to PPL to fly an LAA homebuilt abroad you need to do a full PPL course including exams?