Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

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By Micromouse
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1875063
Hi All,

I'm approaching my skills & mock test, done my QXC, fly at a FISO controlled field and can transit controlled space etc, reading CAP 413 and safety sense 22 any tips for passing the RT exam and practical?

Wayne
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By VRB_20kt
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1875070
Make sure that you’re confident with PHACER and that you can handle Mayday relay, Mayday and Pan Pan.

Expect a zone transit and a diversion

CAP413 is, as you have mentioned, your Bible.

If there is such a thing, it’s quite a nice exam.

Good luck.
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By Micromouse
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1875165
Ok I’m going to duck…. PHACER??? Spent a good 30mins googling and not found that one. Although I’m assuming it’s the response to ‘pass your message’?

Wayne


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By VRB_20kt
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1875218
Micromouse wrote:Ok I’m going to duck…. PHACER??? Spent a good 30mins googling and not found that one. Although I’m assuming it’s the response to ‘pass your message’?


It is exactly that.

Position
Heading
Altitude
Condition (VFR/IFR - often omitted)
Expect (Expected time at some point - also frequently omitted0
Request

EG:
- xxx radar, G-ABCD Request zone transit.
- G-CD, xxx radar, pass your message
- G-CD is Supermarine Spitfire, routing A to B, Overhead Sometown Heading 030 at three thousand feed. VFR. Expect zone boundary at 10, Request zone transit.

or

- yyy zone G-ABCD Request Basic Service
- G-CD, yyy zone, pass your message
- G-CD is Supermarine Spitfire, local flight out of A, Overhead Sometown Heading North at two thousand feed. Request Basic Service.

CAP 413 para 3.29 & forward and 6.70 & forward refers

On a personal level, I find it easier to have the whole PHACER thing in my head and miss bits out than it is to have a different scheme for each eventuality.
By tcc1000
#1875227
You get a chance to prepare before the exam starts, so you can plan your flight (as in who are you going to talk to and when). You can write down the bits you will want in order in advance or at least templates for them. Expect to either get a MayDay / Pan-Pan yourself or to hear one and relay it if no-one responds (so write it down if you hear it). The examiner is not after perfection - if you call up the wrong people (e.g. ask for a radar service from someone who doesn't have radar), then you'll get an appropriate response (suggest you call xxx). Just continue to have a correct conversation - frequency handover, etc. as you would in the real world.

Try and visualise what's actually going on, which is harder than an real life. e.g. if you suddenly get told the airfield is closed when you are on final, your first action is to go around. You then have time to work out what you would do next.
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By Rob P
#1875305
Andrew Sinclair wrote:I have done thousands


Stick at it. You'll pass eventually.

Rob P
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1875340
Andrew Sinclair wrote:It’s the blasted position reports that I struggle with :oops:

On the one occasion in the last 30 years I was asked for an estimate for some turning point, obviously (as I never used PLOGs) I had absolutely no idea when I'd get there.

So using my thumb on the map (6 mins per thumb in nil wind on the half mill) I got some almost completely random number that was probably good to no better than +/- about 5 minutes, so I gave them that...

... and called back a couple of minutes later with a slightly less random

"<callsign> revised estimate for <waypoint> XX."

Feel free to use this excellent technique without attribution. :pirat:
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By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1875354
tcc1000 wrote:You get a chance to prepare before the exam starts, so you can plan your flight (as in who are you going to talk to and when). You can write down the bits you will want in order in advance or at least templates for them.


I seem to remember that I had templates set up and while Learning and for the first year or so of PPL flying, used to plan who I would talk to and what I would say in exactly the same way as I would have a PLOG. They were side by side. It worked for me.

20 odd years later and I dont need the templates, but still usually take a second to run through in my head how I expect the "Radio Conversation" to go before pressing the PTT. I still mess up occasionally - we all do.

Oh, and dont forget the imortal phrase "G-xxxx, Say again??"... :mrgreen:
(Oh, and try not to have the PTT pressed when you say aloud "WTF was that he just said??" :oops: )

Regards, SD..
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By Crash one
#1875467
I was once asked for a position report from some unhelpful controller. I said “overhead xxx at two thousand feet, heading south 170 magnetic”
Controller”report position”.
I repeated the above three times from the same answer.
Eventually it clicked.
“Overhead xxx at two thousand feet on QNH 1015”.
“G-xx roger”.
So. Don’t forget the subscale reference.
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By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1875496
Eh? :scratch:

Usually they give you the QNH to use for their airspace..?? :?
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By Micromouse
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1875569
Thanks for all the tips. I had a session with my instructor yesterday going over a few bits but he thinks I will be fine. Exam is later today so I will let you all know how I get on…

Thanks all!!!
Wayne


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By Crash one
#1875595
skydriller wrote:Eh? :scratch:

Usually they give you the QNH to use for their airspace..?? :?


I wasn’t in their airspace, I had previously asked for a basic service to pass close to it, several aircraft were in the region, all heading for the same place/event, another aircraft was following 10 miles behind me but was faster, perhaps with a traffic service.