Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

#1866855
@TrickyWoo
Apologies for my lack of patience earlier.
As others have explained, it's not about the whizz wheel - it's about developing the understand of the triangle of velocities problem that you have to have in order to use the whizz wheel. Learning to use it is itself a test if you will.
Have a search for ' mental dead reckoning'. That's what you need really to be able to do. It is the gross error check that you need using any type of calculator, it's what you will need in real life if your iPad goes down to avoid having to make @TopCat 's Pan call, and actually it's all you ever need to flight plan in the first place.
But it's not enough to pass the exams - so there I suppose I do agree with you....
Rob P liked this
#1866857
I appreciate the explanation and have 2 lessons with a new (to me) FI tomorrow while regular one is away and I can choose what we do up to a point and so these can be an intro to nav hopefully. It'll all become clear I'm sure. If the wheel is the path to the Way of True Understanding then the wheel it shall be. 100%. (With the calculator in the exam as backup!)
Rob P, lobstaboy liked this
#1866863
Paul_Sengupta wrote:In years to come you'll look back on that with nostalgia! When you see a whizz wheel in a museum, you'll smile to yourself at having used one of those in the past...


Mine is on the bookshelf above my monitor. I often catch sight of it, and yes, I smile.

Though the coming of gps and navigation apps mean it's never used in anger these days, it did allow me to mentor two students in its use. That was fun too, even if I did have to relearn it the day before the mentoring sessions to stay ahead of the student. :lol:

Rob P
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1866872
TrickyWoo wrote:If the wheel is the path to the Way of True Understanding then the wheel it shall be. 100%. (With the calculator in the exam as backup!)

I wouldn't go that far.

The Way of True Understanding is to get good enough at map reading so that flight planning takes place as follows:

  • Inspect the map and decide your route. Don't draw it on the map, as the lines can often obscure details.
  • Carefully check the NOTAMs
  • Count thumb joints and multiply by an appropriate number for miles and another one for minutes. This lets you work out time enroute and fuel required.

When you come to fly:

  • Look in the tanks and if you're not certain there's plenty of fuel, put more in.
  • Point the aeroplane in the right general direction (you should be able to estimate the heading visually from the map)
  • Read your map ensuring that you know where you are at all times.
  • Adjust your heading as required.

It worked for me from year 2 to 26 of my flying. Then I got SkyDemon four years ago.

As I've said elsewhere, it's terrifying how fast skills are lost if you don't practise them. :(
TrickyWoo liked this
#1866878
@TopCat, if only it were that simple.

A student is also going to need to understand a whole lot of IAS/TAS, head/tail/crosswind, airspeed/groundspeed, heading/track and ETA calculations as well. And of course in other parts of the world the difference between degrees T and degrees M really matters.
#1866883
low&slow wrote:@TopCat, if only it were that simple.

A student is also going to need to understand a whole lot of IAS/TAS, head/tail/crosswind, airspeed/groundspeed, heading/track and ETA calculations as well. And of course in other parts of the world the difference between degrees T and degrees M really matters.


I'm busy learning these now via Easy PPL and PPL Tutor. (I don't yet see how the EFB over the wheel affects these items however.)

PLOGs, pens and protractors etc due this evening. Study wall changing from posters of clouds and fronts to charts and certificates!
#1866885
TopCat wrote:
TrickyWoo wrote:If the wheel is the path to the Way of True Understanding then the wheel it shall be. 100%. (With the calculator in the exam as backup!)

I wouldn't go that far.

The Way of True Understanding is to get good enough at map reading so that flight planning takes place as follows:

  • Inspect the map and decide your route. Don't draw it on the map, as the lines can often obscure details.
  • Carefully check the NOTAMs
  • Count thumb joints and multiply by an appropriate number for miles and another one for minutes. This lets you work out time enroute and fuel required.

When you come to fly:

  • Look in the tanks and if you're not certain there's plenty of fuel, put more in.
  • Point the aeroplane in the right general direction (you should be able to estimate the heading visually from the map)
  • Read your map ensuring that you know where you are at all times.
  • Adjust your heading as required.

It worked for me from year 2 to 26 of my flying. Then I got SkyDemon four years ago.

As I've said elsewhere, it's terrifying how fast skills are lost if you don't practise them. :(


Thank you so much. The above has been Copy Pasted and will go on the wall next to other items I've gathered such as landing advice from PPRruNe)
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1866920
low&slow wrote:@TopCat, if only it were that simple.

A student is also going to need to understand a whole lot of IAS/TAS, head/tail/crosswind, airspeed/groundspeed, heading/track and ETA calculations as well. And of course in other parts of the world the difference between degrees T and degrees M really matters.

Well if a student is daft enough to actually think that what I just wrote really is the whole story, then he deserves everything he gets.

But actually in my experience - 24 years of it - it is that simple if you can read a map.

In the military, where you have to be at your waypoints to a precision of seconds, sure, you have to be able to apply all that stuff.

But for the rest of us, you don't.

IAS/TAS can be completely discounted at sensible speeds and altitudes; head/tail/xwind components can all be estimated accurately enough to have an idea of your GS; heading and track are irrelevant if you choose a route with decent landmarks and make adjustments along the way, and I'm not talking about other parts of the world.

And if you need an estimate for a turning point, which is very rare anyway, you can quickly count thumbs and multiply by a bit more or a bit less than your nil wind factor.

PLOG-free nav is quite liberating, in fact. I used to enjoy it a lot. But I taught myself to do it after I'd been through all the rest of it, not before.
#1866988
TopCat wrote:
TrickyWoo wrote:btw - straight to Sky Demon - isn't that what 99.999 do post-qual anyway?

They'll have to declare a PAN if their tablet dies.

In my two years post PPL, I've had two tablet failures, both happened using iPads, both as a result of an unannounced shutdown due to overheating, both events were in rented (school) aircraft. Neither required a PAN, I simply switched over to the Android tablet I had on the seat beside me. If that fails I have another. Each is up-to-date and loaded with the same flight plan.
StuartW liked this
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1866990
rb14 wrote:
TopCat wrote:
TrickyWoo wrote:btw - straight to Sky Demon - isn't that what 99.999 do post-qual anyway?

They'll have to declare a PAN if their tablet dies.

In my two years post PPL, I've had two tablet failures, both happened using iPads, both as a result of an unannounced shutdown due to overheating, both events were in rented (school) aircraft. Neither required a PAN, I simply switched over to the Android tablet I had on the seat beside me. If that fails I have another. Each is up-to-date and loaded with the same flight plan.

Dang it, doddery old fart that I am, I'd never have thought of that.

You're absolutely right. Three tablets ( :shock: ) all with SkyDemon will probably mean you don't have to make a PAN call if one fails.

There's me told.... well done!
#1867009
TrickyWoo wrote:I appreciate the explanation and have 2 lessons with a new (to me) FI tomorrow while regular one is away and I can choose what we do up to a point and so these can be an intro to nav hopefully. It'll all become clear I'm sure. If the wheel is the path to the Way of True Understanding then the wheel it shall be. 100%. (With the calculator in the exam as backup!)


CAA says "Scientific calculator, or a mechanical navigation slide rule (DR calculator), or an electronic flight computer" are allowed in the exam.

The whizz wheel is anachronistic, but it does illustrate visually the way in which required heading and groundspeed changes per unit increase/decrease in wind speed and direction. Similarly for the effect of changing pressure altitude and temperature on true airspeed, altitude and density altitude. You won't get that from a "black box" flight computer that spits out a single answer for each input.

A typical whizz wheel has other formulae and conversion factors that might come in handy too :D

Once you have a good handle on it you can use a normal scientific calculator (trig for wind calculations, simple arithmetic for everything else).
#1867188
+++UPDATE+++UPADTE+++Up...

Further efforts in using WW with Easy PPL and book shows it's...ok. Not great fun but new knowledge is always good. I don't yet see any 'visualisations' or other benefit but that may change. And it's not as slow as expected. The CX-3 is also extremely useful and intuitive. (Try it here...)

https://online.prepware.com/cx3e/index.html

Conclusion - I'm learning both and will take both to the Nav and Perf exams.

(As an exam junkie there's every chance I'll take up the offer of being a study-buddy to a friend doing the CPL exams next year anyway simply because they're there. Cant' hurt)
#1867192
TrickyWoo wrote:+++UPDATE+++UPADTE+++Up...

Further efforts in using WW with Easy PPL and book shows it's...ok. Not great fun but new knowledge is always good. I don't yet see any 'visualisations' or other benefit but that may change. And it's not as slow as expected. )


Excellent!
Try drawing a wind triangle problem graphically, with the three lines accurately angled and the right length to represent the three vectors.
Now do the same problem on the whizz wheel. You'll see that the whizz wheel has drawn the same triangle (you will have to experiment with the orientations of the whole whizz wheel device and your drawing to get them to line up).
It's important to be able to understand how the three vectors work (visualisation) so you can do rough guesstimates in the air.
Sooty25 liked this