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By JAFO
#1864784
Genghis the Engineer wrote:Reading any checklist whilst flying a PFL is likely to fail your skill test!


Genghis, while I wouldn't have thought about using a checklist on a PFL in a skills test myself, @Irv Lee pointed out that the standards document says:

Checklists
Throughout the flight the applicant will be expected to use the aeroplane checklist. The applicant is to assume that the test is the first flight of the day. Airborne checks may be completed from memory, or from alternative notes, but must be in accordance with the checklist and with each check item spoken aloud


So, why would use of a checklist be an automatic failure?
User avatar
By lobstaboy
#1864786
A4 Pacific wrote:
Reading any checklist whilst flying a PFL is likely to fail your skill test!


Why?

If I fly a perfect PFL and have referred to a checklist on the way down, why would I fail??


Well it's about the sequence of actions I'd say. If the very first thing you do when the examiner pulls back the throttle is pull out the checklist and read it then you can't fly a perfect PFL because you will have wasted time before you trim for best glide and plan how to get to a good landing place.
On the other hand if you've done everything and have an assured landing and then pull out the CHECKlist to make sure you've done everything, then ok.
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1864849
Genghis the Engineer wrote:Reading any checklist whilst flying a PFL is likely to fail your skill test!
G

well it's funny you should say that, 2-3 years ago, I was cleaning a white board as a very senior examiner was moving in to classroom and I was moving out, I was earwigging him talking to some pilots, possibly FI candidates, not sure, and he was saying GA SEP pilots fly around so low they never had to time consult an emergency checklist like engine failure restart lists, he'd love to see one with enough time to do them from a checklist to ensure they got everything.
User avatar
By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1865052
JAFO wrote:
Genghis the Engineer wrote:Reading any checklist whilst flying a PFL is likely to fail your skill test!


Genghis, while I wouldn't have thought about using a checklist on a PFL in a skills test myself, @Irv Lee pointed out that the standards document says:

Checklists
Throughout the flight the applicant will be expected to use the aeroplane checklist. The applicant is to assume that the test is the first flight of the day. Airborne checks may be completed from memory, or from alternative notes, but must be in accordance with the checklist and with each check item spoken aloud


So, why would use of a checklist be an automatic failure?


Because immediate actions in the event of an emergency, should be known and carried out.

The use of a printed checklist in the management of an emergency is something you do if there's enough time and good enough reason to do so -otherwise it is a distraction and poor airmanship.

Personally I virtually never use printed checklists in the air for any reason, and I'd say in light GA that should absolutely be the norm. We aren't flying airliners at 30,000ft where you have minutes, possibly hours, before the adrenaline rush; nor are we in multi-crew cockpits where one pilot can manage the aircraft when another can manage the checklist. We're flying small aircraft, single pilot operated, that lose height quickly in the event of a power failure, and where the available options are simple and limited - so we should jolly well know what those options are and how to carry them out. That may often include memorised mnemonics, which is of-course another form of non-printed checklist, so is cockpit flow.

IF there's then time, using the checklist to confirm you didn't miss anything important is great, only then.

G
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By A4 Pacific
#1865067
Personally I virtually never use printed checklists in the air for any reason, and I'd say in light GA that should absolutely be the norm.


Interesting isn’t it.

Because we know humans are very fond of making ‘stupid’ mistakes, (particularly when faced with the unexpected or are under stress. Or even when under-aroused!) we mandated a second pilot to monitor the actions of the first. Yet when on our own, we’re determined we’ll get everything right first time and without any tools of assistance. :roll:

That was always the difference between ‘died in the wool’ single pilot and multi crew types!

Concepts such as the “Chimp Paradox” by Professor Steve Peters are widely taught in commercial operations.

Each of us houses a psychological Chimp inside our brains, primitively reacting to the world and spurring us to act emotionally, impetuously, and irresponsibly. If you’ve ever struggled to stay in control of your urges, succumbed to temptation, or sabotaged your own success, your Chimp has probably taken the reins for a bit. Fortunately, our brains also have an inner Human who, when functioning properly, keeps our inner Chimp under control and allows us to interact with the world in a stable, positive, productive way.


After ‘flying the aircraft’ (and continuing to do so) referring to a checklist, if you have time, is an excellent way to enable your pre-frontal cortex (inner human) to wrest back control from your error prone amygdala. (chimp) Even if only to check what ‘Chimp’ has been up to whilst you’ve been gone! :lol:

Always bear in mind the more rapidly you do something, the easier you make it for the chimp, like the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain, to be the one pulling your levers!
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By JAFO
#1865077
Genghis the Engineer wrote:
JAFO wrote:So, why would use of a checklist be an automatic failure?


Because immediate actions in the event of an emergency, should be known and carried out.

The use of a printed checklist in the management of an emergency is something you do if there's enough time and good enough reason to do so -otherwise it is a distraction and poor airmanship.


Genghis, I completely agree with you but it would seem that the guidance for examiners does not, so I cannot see that it would be grounds for an automatic failure.

If the standards document says:

Airborne checks may be completed from memory, or from alternative notes, but must be in accordance with the checklist and with each check item spoken aloud


Then surely you really can't fail someone simply for completing airborne checks from alternative notes which are in accordance with the checklist and with each check item spoken aloud simply because you don't happen to like it.
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1865135
"In accordance with the checklist" is somewhat different in meaning to "whilst reading the checklist".

Of course there is always a line there somewhere. A reminder mnemonic in field of view may well be reasonable, distracting yourself by reading a full checklist of items that should have been memorised probably isn't.

G
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