[leiafee]

So who’s done it? Anything you’d wished you’d known going in that I should know starting next week?

Wish me weather luck - long range doesn’t look catastrophic.

Heading down towards Goodwood tomorrow to start on Monday for the five day block with Ultimate High in their T67s.

My flying’s been rather erratic and episodic the past two years between covid, and engine stoppages, more covid and aircraft replacement so it’ll be nice to have a good lump of time to focus on learning something specific.

[Rob P]

Only two tips.

1) Keep the harness tight.

2) Forget "Blue up, green down"

And enjoy

Rob P

[scd975]

Ultimate High - excellent course and instructors.

Top tip - squeeze your stomach muscles (hard!) as you go into a 4G pull - it helps to maintain blood pressure to the brain.

[T6Harvard]

Oh that's exciting!!

As you know, eat beforehand

I've only been treated to one aeros flight which had just 4 or 5 aerobatic manoeuvres so I have no tips, but ENJOY

[JonathanB]

Don’t go on an empty stomach.

Try not to let the grin hit the sides of the cockpit!

[AndyR]

Don't be brave and give it 'just one more manoeuvre' when your body says otherwise.

And enjoy

[carlmeek]

Congratulations, I hope you enjoy it. I spent ten years disliking aerobatics due to not enjoying a couple of passenger rides. Then I did the course, loved it so much that I then went on to get my aerobatic instructor ticket too.

Make sure you are really communicative with the instructor. They should build you up slowly giving your brain and body the opportunity to get accustomed to it. And if you start feeling off, abort the sortie, it won’t get better.

[TopCat]

in their T67s.

The only useful piece of advice I can offer is this:

If for some reason you get down there and someone's broken the T67 and all they can offer you is an Extra, or an Edge, or whatever they do their stuff in...

... Take it! Even though it's more expensive.

In my case, it was in 1995 and someone had taxied the Decathlon into something, so it was just the Pitts S2A available.

It was worth the extra. I didn't go back to the Decathlon even after it was fixed.

[MichaelP]

It was worth the extra. I didn't go back to the Decathlon even after it was fixed.

I instructed aerobatics, and aerobatic instructors for many years. Like the T67, the Decathlon is a much better aerobatic training aeroplane than a Pitts or an Eagle.
The Cessna Aerobat isn’t much good, but better in many ways than an Extra 300L.
The CAP 10 is delightful.

I have taught in the Extra 300L, but for primary aerobatic training you can’t beat a CAP 10, a Decathlon, or a T67.
The Extra, while it brings a grin, it also does not easily show the imperfections in a pilots’ technique.

I’ve flown with pilots who’s primary aerobatic training was in the Extra 300. Most often the pilot’s instructors were unable to go back to the basics and therefore they taught from an advanced aerobatic point of view.
It can be rough, with head banging stick banging movements. On the other hand in a Decathlon energy conservancy means being smooth and accurate.

The pilot who flies the ‘lesser’ aerobatic aeroplane well is the pilot who can exploit the ‘extra’ power to the greatest effect.

One such pilot, trained in the Extra 300L, lost direction when he flew half cubans in the CAP 10.
This manoeuvre is very easy in the Extra, no apparent rudder required with the crisp rate of roll.
In the CAP you pick the point on the ground ahead and you do a coordinated roll about this point. If you never learned to do this the aeroplane will deviate from the line.
Learn to do aerobatics in an aeroplane where energy conservation is important, and then take full benefit of the power available in the ‘better’ aeroplane later.

What is very difficult to do in the Extra is the slow roll.
You really have to be very very careful with the stick, a slight twitch and she’s around quickly.
In the Decathlon you work all the controls to achieve a roll. Let’s roll at 80 knots entry speed (90mph if you like), now you’re working! At 130 mph the slow roll is nice and easy in the Decathlon. Keep focused ahead, pick your point and roll about it.
This point is the same when after 5/8 of a loop you attain the forty five degree angle, look ahead, pick the point and roll about it, coordinating the roll with rudder and elevator.

[MichaelP]

When I had the Condor Club I had to get an aerobatic aeroplane.
The Condor feels aerobatic, like a CAP10, but is not certified for it.
So I acquired a T67A which was a very good aerobatic training aeroplane that had good response to inaccurate flying.

Unfortunately it was not suitable for low level aerobatics, most aeroplanes are not!

Pilots who got into trouble often had ham fisted looping techniques learned in the Cessna Aerobat. They’d flick on the vertical up.
Most fools at least did their scary loop at altitude and arrived back with pallid faces as a dead give away to what they’d been doing in my aeroplane.
I put a placard in the aeroplanes:

All aircraft bite fools
Do not attempt aerobatics without proper training

I had the first T67M cleared for aerobatics, G BKTZ, with 160hp, a composite CS propeller, and a central fuel tank.
It’s spinning was somewhat dodgy, but otherwise it was a very good aerobatic trainer.

I loved the Bucker Jungmann, and the Stampe, and taught in both.
An Extra would be nice, love them very much.
But if you are professional you select the aeroplane best suited to the job and the economical access required.

[TopCat]

It was worth the extra. I didn't go back to the Decathlon even after it was fixed.

I instructed aerobatics, and aerobatic instructors for many years. Like the T67, the Decathlon is a much better aerobatic training aeroplane than a Pitts or an Eagle.

I'm not disagreeing with you - I've got nowhere near enough aeros experience to even begin to have an opinion about how best to do aerobatics training.

I can only comment on my very limited experience - the difficulty I had with the Decathlon was that it was far heavier in roll than in pitch. When I switched to the Pitts, the stick forces were so much lower that I was able to concentrate on the quite small differences between doing something wrong, and doing it right, rather than trying to make small differences to large forces.

The Pitts was also much more fun, and as it got to the training area and back a lot quicker, once I started feeling ill, I could knock it on the head and get back on the ground with less suffering.

[Paul_Sengupta]

the stick forces were so much lower that I was able to concentrate on the quite small differences between doing something wrong, and doing it right, rather than trying to make small differences to large forces.

That's how I feel about landing a later model 172 or a 182....

[MichaelP]

Spades make a real difference to the Decathlon.

When choosing an aeroplane for a purpose an operator has to balance many factors.
If you are to allow a pilot of average ability to solo then there’s a a huge difference between the Decathlon and an Pitts. Would you rent a Pitts solo to as many people?
The Decathlon is better for communication and sense between its occupants.
The Decathlon is a lot more economical to operate and to insure, and so it’s rate becomes more attractive.
The Decathlon is a much much better training aeroplane for tailwheel and can even be used to train PPLs.

The Pitts is better preparation for more advanced manoeuvres.

Bang for buck the Decathlon is a better deal than a Pitts for an operator.
The Pitts is nice to have for later, if you can afford it.

[leiafee]

One day in and chief takeaway so far is “if you do the recovery actions it really will recover however outlandish it looks!

I needed a few S&L pauses and the rabbit-in-headlight eyeboggling frozen startlement at the first incipent spin entry recovery was a sight to behold

But all very interesting!

We’ll see what tomorrow brings.

[T6Harvard]

An excellent first day then?!!
Well done. Are you posting vids?