Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

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By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1864739
I hate overhead joins with a deep and meaningful hatred I fly instrument approaches for preference :-)
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1864757
johnm wrote:I hate VFR flying :D

Ah well, fair enough. I think you're bonkers, but it would be boring if we were all the same. :lol:

However, call 8 mile final when I'm about to turn base, and in the bar afterwards I might have to invite you to step outside :wink:

For a polite word, obvs :pirat:
#1865039
johnm wrote:I hate overhead joins with a deep and meaningful hatred I fly instrument approaches for preference :-)


Rather irrelevant to students trying to grasp the basics isn’t it?
User avatar
By MichaelP
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1865420
A lot of unhelpful comments on here.
This is the student forum and we should toe the line when it is about standard training practices regardless of our ‘more experienced’ ideas.

If you want to confuse yourselves on the GA forum, go ahead.

As a former Chief Flight Instructor, albeit abroad, I would prefer to see comments that are instructive and not confusing on a Student forum.
We all learned procedure, would you prefer a student to use your method or a known standard method?

Some justifications given are not valid.
Emergencies aside, procedures have been long established because they allow us to fly in an agreed way.
Deviation from procedure is confusion and sometimes a hazard to other airspace users.

As for noise sensitive areas, I personally think that these are often hazards to safety, but they should not be used as an excuse to cause concern to others who are established in the procedure, and who now have to pay attention to the pilot who decides to call final on a straight in at an optimistic short distance that turns out to be much further away.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1865450
MichaelP wrote:A lot of unhelpful comments on here.

Then perhaps it would be helpful to comment on these specifically, so that we can know which ones are unhelpful.

I'll put my hand up to a bit of banter on this thread, but I'm now wondering whether I've been generally 'unhelpful'.

This is the student forum and we should toe the line when it is about standard training practices regardless of our ‘more experienced’ ideas.

Agreed, but at the same time I don't think we should treat the students like children.

Unless of course they don't yet understand that information gleaned from a forum of random old farts on the internet should not be treated as authoritative.

Some justifications given are not valid.

Again, be specific. Generalisations are not helpful and just compound any confusion.


As a former Chief Flight Instructor, albeit abroad, I would prefer to see comments that are instructive and not confusing on a Student forum.
We all learned procedure, would you prefer a student to use your method or a known standard method?

A known standard method, obviously. But there is a wider issue here. I see cases in the air all the time where clearly instructors themselves are not teaching the known standard method - of OHJs in this case. The students are obviously not making it up for themselves.

As for noise sensitive areas, I personally think that these are often hazards to safety, but they should not be used as an excuse to cause concern to others who are established in the procedure, and who now have to pay attention to the pilot who decides to call final on a straight in at an optimistic short distance that turns out to be much further away.

I agree, but in fairness, I don't think anyone is suggesting long straight in approaches at uncontrolled fields where the circuit is active. I hope not, anyway.
#1865564
Top Cat
I think there may be a little less to this than meets the eye. May I suggest a degree of willy waving, that is not necessary on the student forum?
User avatar
By Human Factor
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1866010
Often I'll slow down to 65 knots or less downwind, which gives them time.


Please don’t. We Nanchang drivers fly the circuit at 170kmh (91kts) and can’t go much slower safely.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1866803
Human Factor wrote:
Often I'll slow down to 65 knots or less downwind, which gives them time.

Please don’t. We Nanchang drivers fly the circuit at 170kmh (91kts) and can’t go much slower safely.

You didn't quote me specifically, so I only just noticed this was in response to my post.

But sorry, I'm not going to fly round the circuit so fast that I have to extend downwind like the other numpties that can't stay a safe distance from the field, on the off chance there's something behind me that can't slow down.

I don't keep a mental catalogue of which call signs are which aeroplanes, and in any case, it's solving the wrong problem - the real problem is those that fly (and are being taught to fly) circuits that are too big. It would only take one aircraft crashing on to the town with an engine failure in the 25 undershoot to shut the airfield - or at least that runway - possibly permanently. And that aircraft sure as heck ain't going to be me.

I wouldn't be remotely offended if, on the relatively few occasions I slow down for spacing (and in reality it's very rare I'm as slow as 65kt), you overtook me downwind with a suitable call, and then were out of my way by the time I get to short final.

I'm open to argument if this seems unreasonable, but I sometimes have to go around if I get my spacing wrong, so I don't see why that's just on me, just because someone else is in an unusual aircraft.

I'm always happy to give way to Spitfires and Hurricanes, naturally :)
#1867565
I would slow down or modify my circuit for an aircraft in front. If I were to speed up for an aircraft behind at the same time, first I would need to modify the laws of physics, second, I may as well go home and crawl into a hole!
Therefore Nanchang drivers, If I’m in your way it’s your problem, your call!
#1867572
Human Factor wrote:
Often I'll slow down to 65 knots or less downwind, which gives them time.


Please don’t. We Nanchang drivers fly the circuit at 170kmh (91kts) and can’t go much slower safely.


Many aircraft, mine included, won’t be flying a circuit any faster than 90mph (80kts) and quite possibly a bit slower.

Your call.
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