Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1862020
gnudoc wrote:I haven't yet decided it's not ridiculous. I'm just far enough along that asking friendly strangers online about it doesn't seem too stupid. I've been looking at the websites of a couple of flying clubs that offer trial lessons. But before I even spent that money, I wanted to know if you wonderful people were going to laugh and tell me that the idea of learning in the west of Scotland was absurd.

Not only is it not ridiculous, it's clear that you're a natural.

For a newcomer here to have so comprehensively mastered the delights of the [quote] system, proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

On the subject of whims, my first flying lesson happened as follows (anecdote warning...!)

I went to Scotland on holiday with my (now ex) wife, who was a keen Scottish Country Dancer, although that wasn't the only reason we split up. The plan was for her to do a week's summer school, and then the following week we'd go walking in the Cairngorms. While she was jumping over swords, or whatever they do, I was going to learn to windsurf.

Except that when I turned up at the windsurfing centre there was no instructor available. I'd seen a sign to Leuchars airfield, which gave me the idea of finding a flying school. At the CAB in St Andrews, I discovered that Dundee was nearby.

So I phoned up, and yes they had an instructor available for a trial lesson. He turned out to be an RAF phantom pilot, and I had 5 lessons that week. The bug bit as the wheels came off the ground. Even the spin I asked him to show me on the final day, when we had a 150 Aerobat, didn't put me off, even though I got quite disoriented and nauseous.

How I subsequently found an instructor back home, that charged £55 per hour dual, at a time when Cabair was already charging well over £100, is another story.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1862096
TopCat wrote:...who was a keen Scottish Country Dancer, although that wasn't the only reason we split up.


That did make me laugh! :D

As for lots of people on here reading and commenting on the posts, the weather's been a bit wet so we haven't had anything else to do other than read JAFO's book and post on here...

(though it did stop raining here in Wales this afternoon so I went out and washed the car (one of them!) after work)
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By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1862105
gnudoc wrote:
I would probably get a 3-axis microlight licence first

What's the reasoning?

In West of Scotland, 3-axis microlights mean Strathaven. Unfortunately Strathavan is on higher ground, more likely to fog in and will become boggy, stopping flying at times in winter. They are a friendly bunch though! It doesn't cost that much less than using a heavier, more stable aircraft but I hear great reports about the C42s ( https://www.sportflightscotland.com/fly ... costs.html ).
If you get a licence with them (NPPL(m)), you will need more lessons to "upgrade" to a full PPL, which allows more varied flying (and with a small amount of additional training, you can fly a microlight with a full PPL).
Awesome. So comparing Prestwick Flying Club with, let's say Glasgow Flying Club

I'm clearly bias :D
Glasgow Flight Center / Leading Edge Flying Club and Glasgow Flying Club between them have had various management issues and disputes with some strong personalities making things difficult at points, so to be honest I've not engaged with them much. I hope they are all currently thriving but I don't really know.
I will say that the Glasgow schools have more aircraft - Prestwick Flying Club currently only has one aircraft for training. Aircraft need extended services each year, so there will be blocks of time when multiple aircraft have an advantage. I would say that the Robin DR400 is a much more pleasant aircraft than the PA28s at Glasgow - but that is personal preference.

Glasgow Airport isn't great to train at as they charge £20+ per landing and certainly didn't used to allow circuits (takeoff / circle back round / land / repeat) which is a key (and expensive) part of training. If you need to fly for 15min at the start / end of a lesson elsewhere for this (such as to Prestwick or Cumbernauld), it will eat into your time and budget. Full Air Traffic Control is good for discipline in training (available only at larger airports), but if there is a commercial aircraft coming in, you will have to wait your your turn to take off / land. That gets expensive if you have to do it a lot!
Prestwick airport is much nicer to train at. You still get full ATC, a larger runway, a second runway which provides more training options, enough commercial (or military) traffic to increase your experience and very accommodating air traffic control.
The dropping in thing - I've seen that mentioned in a couple of places - do flying clubs welcome the idea of non-members just waltzing and having a chat and a drink with whoever's around? How is that working in covid times?



You'd really be better to arrange a chat (in our case with our Chief Flying Instructor), especially if you have a bit of a distance to travel. Covid means people are less likely to be hanging around the club house, although there were 8 people having their lunch on picnic chairs outside last Saturday when I was down (and that is fairly typical if you happen to turn up around a Saturday lunch time). If there are people around our club, you'd be welcomed. You may find, if you speak to the right person and are luckly, you'll find yourself in an aircraft...
I can't speak for others.

Organising an experience flight will also ensure you meet at least one person. My memory is there is quite a backlog of these at the moment due to them not being allowed to happen at points (due Covid) but better to talk to the guy who organises them. If you are serious about learning to fly, you can try to convince him to organise a trial lesson with an instructor, rather than an experience flight with another pilot, but he is sometimes hard to convince...
#1862130
@riverrock
You make a strong case for Prestwick! I will definitely have to have a look round and a trial lesson with you guys as well, even though it's a 40min drive compared to the 15-20min to the Glasgow ones. :-)
Good advice about Saturday lunchtimes!

@Paul_Sengupta
Is it quite small inside then? I've just been reading about its design. Very interesting!
#1862137
Paul_Sengupta wrote:Two things, headroom and stick room.

Gotcha. :thumright:

DR400 is an absolutely lovely aircraft, @gnudoc. @riverrock claims to be bias, nevertheless he speaks the truth. Prestiwck over Glasgow every time. It's good to have heavy traffic and ATC, it's bad, expensive and very frustrating to have too much heavy traffic. :wink:

I'm intrigued to hear how someone who has never been near a light aircraft and suddenly decides he wants to fly gets on. Don't leave us waiting too long. :D
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#1862179
So Prestwick is a good balance between getting loads of circuits at a tiny airfield/aerodrome and getting lots of RT practice with a very big place. Gotcha.
And I shouldn't worry that the DR400 is quite different (to my naïve eyes) to the more widespread PA28s and so forth that I am more likely to encounter post-training (assuming I go ahead with this...)

I've sent a couple of feelers out about getting trial lessons, so I'll see what people say. There might be a long waiting time. Meantime, I might go sit in a park and read some flying-related books on the Kindle. Maybe some principles of flight stuff. That could be fun ;-) Maybe a go on a flight simulator later - if I can get the computer to behave.
#1862183
gnudoc wrote:And I shouldn't worry that the DR400 is quite different (to my naïve eyes) to the more widespread PA28s and so forth...

IMO the DR400 is the better aircraft. The differences are not pronounced and will not cause any difficulty...

gnudoc wrote:...that I am more likely to encounter post-training

…how do you work this out? If you learn on a DR400 why would you then go off to another club and fly their PA28? Would you not stick with the DR400, the nicer aircraft to fly? I wouldn't see it as just the aeroplane to learn in.

Oh and BTW, if it wasn't for the Scottish (read UK) weather the likelihood is flying would cause financial troubles for many. It's not like most things, that you can scratch and satisfy that itch by flying..flying just makes it itchier. :lol:
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1862208
You would find a PA28 heavier, less dynamic after learning on a DR400, with much poorer visibility.
PA28s are often better equipped Nav equipment wise and generally can carry more weight (there are lots of PA28 varients). However you wouldn't find it too difficult converting to fly one.
There is learning to be done on flying any new aircraft, some more than others. Your lessons will teach you first to fly, then to fly this particular aircraft but the techniques are generally the same. When I learnt to fly, I went through 3 completely different types (PA28, Bolkow Junior, SA Bulldog) - it took about an hour to be comfortable with each new aircraft, and that was before I passed my test.
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By WelshRichy
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1862419
riverrock wrote:If there are people around our club, you'd be welcomed. You may find, if you speak to the right person and are luckly, you'll find yourself in an aircraft...
I can't speak for others.


Yes I’d include myself in the same offer at the same flying club. I’m a member of the resident PA28 Archer II. Although I have been checked out on the Robin DR400 as well.

Everything @riverrock has said I’d concur. :D

I learnt to fly in Cardiff 23 years ago and I must say so far I would say Prestwick is pretty good on weather! We tended to experience weather front after weather front landing on the South Wales coast. Prestwick seems to have its own eco climate.

One thing to mention with regards student solo flights and crosswinds. If you learnt to fly at Glasgow (fabulous ATC - my wife is one there) or elsewhere with a single runway you may be grounded if the crosswind is over solo limits. No such issue at Prestwick with its second runway at right angles to our main runway.

However the best option is to not listen to us on here as we are obviously biased(!). Go have a chat with each club. Make it known you are seriously interested in learning to fly. Get a feel for them. Try and speak with current students and members. Try and have a proper loggable (ie with a qualified instructor) lesson at each of the clubs. Instructional differences and personalities exist….

Most importantly get your medical and never ever pay up front!
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