Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

User avatar
By caverill
FLYER Club Member (reader)  FLYER Club Member (reader)
#1859771
I am only starting on my journey as a pilot having passed my PPL last July and am now embarking on my IR(R), but was saddened to find out that I have to get out the old slide rule to pass the ground school exam.
Surely it’s time that old contraption, that very few pilots use once they have passed their PPL, and move on to using the tools that pilots actually use to plan and fly their routes?
Why not allow IR(R) students to use tools like SkyDemon to support their planning and flying? If a student opts to go retro and use the wheel then fine, but to make us all use it seems short sighted.
Or am I just optimistically wishing the short term pain away and I should relish the use of pre-microchip tools? In fact I feel it’s about time the whole PPL syllabus was updated or at least supplemented with apps and gps instruments.
Thoughts?
#1859801
Generally I think you'll get two types of responses here:
  1. The syllabi are out of date and should teach, and the exams accommodate, use of modern tools such as SkyDemon. Because this is what we do and recommend in the real world - including the CAA because failure to use a moving map is treated as a confounding factor following an airspace infringement.
  2. Teaching and subsequently demonstrating ded reckoning ability at exam time is a really good way to ensure that the student really does understand the fundamentals in a way that naive use of SkyDemon cannot.

I think part of the problem is that the system can't (and shouldn't) favour any particular app over another, and so combined with the challenges from the second point above, this makes driving reform especially difficult. Combined with various organisational challenges within the CAA at the moment, the regulatory fallout from Brexit, and general red tape, I don't see reform happening any time soon. So everyone has to learn this stuff once for their SEP rating, use it again for their IR(R) rating, and then learn it all over again for flying in practice.

Keep in mind that SkyDemon cannot be used in IMC. So if you're flying IFR in IMC, you need to be navigating using approved panel instruments and can use SkyDemon as a cross-check only. I'm not aware of any navigation app that provides track guidance and is intended for use for primary navigation in IMC - one of the major problems being that tablet GPS chips don't typically ensure integrity, so can drift when something goes wrong (I've seen this happen!) instead of informing the pilot. So for an IR(R) syllabus there's the additional complication that apps can't be used; it'd have to accommodate the various IFR panel navigation systems instead.
rf3flyer liked this
User avatar
By caverill
FLYER Club Member (reader)  FLYER Club Member (reader)
#1859843
Thank you for that. I don’t disagree with you. I’ll dig into more detail on using a glass cockpit over traditional instruments as that should give a realisable and standards based set of modern tools.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1859846
caverill wrote:Thank you for that. I don’t disagree with you. I’ll dig into more detail on using a glass cockpit over traditional instruments as that should give a realisable and standards based set of modern tools.

What if one's aircraft doesn't have a glass cockpit?
#1859875
I’ve recently done CPL exams and had to use a whizz wheel for that (in fact, nearly had to buy a new one as my PPL version didn’t do compressibility or Mach calculations - luckily I borrowed one from a BA pilot who hadn’t used his in 20 years…)

IR(R) navigation IMC OCAS is about to get much harder: currently you can plan a route using NDBs and VORs and 'cross-check' with SkyDemon. Once those are (mostly) withdrawn, which the CAA is keen to do rapidly, you’ll need a certified IFR GPS.

Yes, there is a school of thought that DR in IMC is legitimate ('cross-checked' with SD…) but I wouldn’t want to argue that in court.
#1859890
If you look to the scrolling bar to the right of this thread, you may see a Flyer article highlighting that the CAA are warning that portable electronic devices can and do shut themselves down, or make themselves unavailable. If you can’t revert to the basic, easy ways, (maps, charts, mental calculations or whiz wheels) what do you then do?

“Mayday. Mayday. Mayday… SkyDemon failure, requesting vectors.”

:lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
By caverill
FLYER Club Member (reader)  FLYER Club Member (reader)
#1860101
I think the mention of SkyDemon has focused peoples attention on the “new thing” but I also meant glass cockpit or Garmin 430, G5 etc. Sounds like the certified GPS makes the most sense as @NDB_hold says, and it looks inevitable.
Of course if you don’t have mor modern equipment then you have to rely on VOR and the wizz wheel but as so many planes are now retro fitted with certified GPS equipment and the demise of NDB and VOR, it looks like the wizz wheel will soon be a thing of the past.
Not a good thing or a bad thing, just better for those of us who want to fly more advanced instrument planes.
#1860146
Where is the question bank for IRR derived from? I wonder whether it’ll also lag as it won’t be sourced from upto date EASA/IR QBs but will also lag behind updates to CAA/PPL questions / syllabus?
User avatar
By Baldrick
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1860363
A4 Pacific wrote:If you look to the scrolling bar to the right of this thread, you may see a Flyer article highlighting that the CAA are warning that portable electronic devices can and do shut themselves down, or make themselves unavailable. If you can’t revert to the basic, easy ways, (maps, charts, mental calculations or whiz wheels) what do you then do?

“Mayday. Mayday. Mayday… SkyDemon failure, requesting vectors.”

:lol: :lol: :lol:


I think the OP is suggesting that apps like Sky Demon could be used to perform the pre flight calculations. Which is quite a sensible idea, personally I use Sporty’s E6B app or SD. And in flight navigation using the Garmin 430 and SD (on an iPad which I keep out of the heat), for situational awareness.

I once read that using a wiz wheel for in flight solo IMC calculations was equivalent to unicycling around the lip of the pit of despair.
Flyingfemme, caverill liked this