Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1858987
@jcal Quote "Instructor is throwing so much at me I'm still trying to digest things I've learned before we move on, but I'll make sure to ask to recap things I'm not confident with."
---
Well, here's the odd thing..... this learning is like nothing, and I mean NOTHING, I've ever done before. And I've done a fair bit!

I too thought one should consolidate, not move to another new thing (or 5) before one had grasped new thing number 1.

How wrong I was!!

More stuff just keeps getting chucked in, you think you haven't got it, but your brain secretly works away on the Stuff and one day it spits it out , pretty much fully formed.

Took me a while :oops: to get straight and level, I mean I was heavy handed and it seemed beyond me. Now it just happens.
Meantime, I tackled rolling onto headings, level turns, climbing and descending etc, some I took to faster than others :mrgreen: .
When I finally got into the circuit lessons, S&L was fine! We'd not really practiced it specifically after the first lesson* , osmosis had solved the problem :lol:
*that's not true, I had to repeat that lesson :lol:

Every lesson you are in fact recapping things, of course. TO, climbing, general handling, may not be the focus of the lesson but you're doing those things.

Obviously I love learning to fly, it's almost an unbelievable thing I find myself doing, but I'm no natural. It's gonna take a while.
I've felt embarrassed by my shabby performances and slow progress, but then suddenly I have a great lesson and there's the rush!

So the short version is, your brain is secretly consolidating, you'll see.

PS, I thought I was suffering from capacity overload, instructor took away some tasks in the circuit to help me work on the flying but it disn't help much :( . However, the day I suddenly had far MORE to do was my best ever lesson. Work that one out :roll:
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1858989
Yes, @editmonkey has made an important point. You should have a logbook and it should be completed after every flight - date, time, aircraft type, reg, place, time flown, etc. Your school may sell them but Pooleys have them, as do other suppliers :D
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By tcc1000
#1859049
At North Weald, you normally book out on the radio as well, so add what you are doing and number of people on board. Say to your instructor what you are going to say first before pushing the PTT. Here is what I would say:

North Weald Radio,
(Good morning),
Golf Sierra Mike Oscar November
is a Cessna 152
on the hangar 2 apron.
Request departure information
for local flight to East,
2 POB.

You can do a radio check first, you can split things up, and anything you miss will be asked for.
The callsign is normally "Weald zero one" (instead of G-LOMN for example - I can't remember G-SMON off the top of my head).

You will get back something containing:
Runway 02 Left (or 20 Right)
QNH xxxx
Which you need to repeat back, followed by callsign.

The official doc (CAP413): http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413%20E23%20A1%2026Nov2020.pdf isn't a bad read - the relevant section starts at 4.145

If you miss bits or mess it up, your instructor will correct or append if needed.
There are lots of students on the radio all the time, so imperfect messages are the norm - and actually most qualified pilots aren't perfect either.
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By CapnM
#1859056
If you're worried about operating the radio, may I recommend checking this new website out for some of your radiotelephony needs: https://wilcoradio.com/

It's relatively new but I've seen it advertised/discussed a few times in the Facebook groups. It's part owned by Andy Moon, "CAA's Chief FRTOL / ROCC Examiner", really nice guy. I did his FRTOL course in 2016, as did probably most students across the Midlands at some point :lol: I've yet to use it myself, but will be checking it out just as a refresher.

:thumleft:
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1859125
editmonkey wrote:like the one who designed a stall warner on a high wing that requires mouth suction to test


Have you figured out putting a handkerchief between your mouth and the wing yet in order to not be sucking on dead flies? :D
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By jcal
#1859131
Rob P wrote:Yes you are.

"North Weald Radio, Golf Sierra Mike Oscar Lima for radio check and airfield information"

There you go. Simples.

Yeah, I think it'll be ok.. Calling out the "script" is easy enough, what I need to get comfortable is the information I get back. Biggest worry is not knowing what to do with that information!

editmonkey wrote:There's a space in my logbook for recording airfields and aeroplanes, do you have one yet?

I don't actually, I was told the school would let me know when to buy any equipment so I've been a bit at their whim. I think I will push for that next time I'm there though as I do want to have a record of my flights for myself. I know they've been keeping flight slips for each of them signed by me and my instructor, so I assume those are what will then get transferred to the logbook.

editmonkey wrote:Also a good bit of advice I got was to get the pilot's guide to the aircraft, a good investment of about 7 quid, and it really helps to understand the kinks and the quirks of different models etc

Is this the same as the POH or something else? I'm definitely keen to grab it!

editmonkey wrote:Good luck tomorrow, looks like a nice sunny one!

Thanks! It was cancelled unfortunately, a/c I was going to fly had to go in for maintenance. Shame since it is a stunning day for flying. My next lesson will be next Tuesday.

T6Harvard wrote:Well, here's the odd thing..... this learning is like nothing, and I mean NOTHING, I've ever done before. And I've done a fair bit!

I too thought one should consolidate, not move to another new thing (or 5) before one had grasped new thing number 1.

How wrong I was!!

Oh god.. Better brace for it then :lol:.

T6Harvard wrote:So the short version is, your brain is secretly consolidating, you'll see.

PS, I thought I was suffering from capacity overload, instructor took away some tasks in the circuit to help me work on the flying but it disn't help much :( . However, the day I suddenly had far MORE to do was my best ever lesson. Work that one out

Well that takes some trust in my brain! I'll definitely look forward to that day :mrgreen:

tcc1000 wrote:At North Weald, you normally book out on the radio as well, so add what you are doing and number of people on board. Say to your instructor what you are going to say first before pushing the PTT. Here is what I would say:
[...]
The official doc (CAP413): http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP ... ov2020.pdf isn't a bad read - the relevant section starts at 4.145

If you miss bits or mess it up, your instructor will correct or append if needed.
There are lots of students on the radio all the time, so imperfect messages are the norm - and actually most qualified pilots aren't perfect either.

Thanks @tcc1000 , that sounds like exactly what my instructor says, I take it you fly/flown at NW?

I did skim the CAP413, it's a good read but was a bit hard to figure out what was relevant for me and what wasn't, thanks for linking a paragraph, that will help!
CapnM wrote:If you're worried about operating the radio, may I recommend checking this new website out for some of your radiotelephony needs: https://wilcoradio.com/

That looks neat, I'll check it out.
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By tcc1000
#1859184
jcal wrote:Thanks @tcc1000 , that sounds like exactly what my instructor says, I take it you fly/flown at NW?


Yes - I learnt there a year. I passed my skills test in G-SMON almost a year ago - hence knowing you got one letter of the callsign wrong. I'm flying from Duxford at the moment.
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By jcal
#1860918
I've been a bit slow on the updates here, but here goes, 2 more lessons under my belt!

Lesson 3

This one was last Sunday, managed to snag a last minute cancellation after my own lesson had been cancelled the Friday previously, so I got lucky!

My usual instructor is off for a couple of weeks so I met my second CFI, and what an instructor he was!

It's really interesting to see different instructors teaching styles, I have to admit, as much as I love my initial instructor, he's such a great guy, I honestly learned so much better with this new guy.

We're doing exercise 6.1 so first proper lesson on Straight & Level. It was 33 degrees hot so getting up in the air as quick as possible was our top priority 8) .

The lesson was absolutely great, we very methodically practice getting in and keeping S&L, intentionally losing it, and getting it back.

Since this was a beautiful sunny Sunday the airfield and surrounding airspace was absolutely packed. We had the opportunity to see both a Spitfire flying around and a private jet taking off from the airfield :D .

Once back on the ground I miss the cooler air at 2000ft, but overall very happy.


Lesson 4

In quick succession I had another flight with my second instructor on the following Tuesday morning, nice and early at 9am. We're doing S&L part 2, e.g. S&L in different speed configurations and an intro to Climbs & Descents.

The lesson was again pretty eventless, nothing too crazy, drilling in the PATs and APTs, the effects of the aircraft when going slow vs going fast, with and without flaps. I bounce around a bit in slow flight and overshoot my target altitude so I have to practice that a couple of times, I think maybe I'm being too slow to level off and find my S&L picture. I'll get to practice more next time when we fully go in Climbs and Descents.

This new instructor is not hinting at me doing radio as much as my previous one was, I think he's much more methodical about the teaching process so I'm less worried about it being sprung on me unexpectedly :lol: . Regarldess I've been reading up CAP413 and the Pooleys manual on communications, so I'm getting a bit more comfortable with it.

I've now booked 4 more lessons in the coming 2 weeks, all with this new instructor, not sure how to break it to my other instructor, but I think I may want to stick with this guy now :shock: .


Oh yeah, I'm starting to get a little better sense of direction around the area, trying to keep my rough location and the direction of the airfield in the back of my mind during the exercises.

Also, no feeling sick! Like at all! Maybe it's due to practicing S&L, maybe the new instructor, or maybe I'm just getting used to it. But it's a relief!
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1860934
Oh that's brilliant!! Sounds like 2 excellent lessons :thumleft:

Great write up, btw. Glad you enjoying it so much.

Hope the weather is OK for Tues.

My instructor didn't let me near the radio for far too long.
When I finally got on it I was happy doing it....
...until last week... last week I had a totally different callsign (I know, minor thing but it threw me a couple of times cos I found those particular letters hard to say in succession), a different airfield, different runway headings, more procedures (eg, crossing one runway to get to active), agggh. Also felt under pressure for other reasons so there were a couple of errors.
At one point I confidently called on frequency, gave the correct callsign and then just repeated the previous pilot's location details!! Queue instructor jumping on to clarify. Doh.
I did manage to recall and amend without prompting, 'Downwind' to 'Late downwind', when I was too slow to announce in the right place :mrgreen:
Last edited by T6Harvard on Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By jcal
#1860990
Ah yeah I can imagine it gets 10x harder when suddenly your practiced routine is thrown off!

I know you get to practice landing at different airfields during the training, but I also keep thinking about how I'm basically going to be clueless of all the quirks of other airfields than my own :lol:. Flying off to somewhere you've never been before I'm expecting to be proper terrifying.
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1861014
jcal wrote:Ah yeah I can imagine it gets 10x harder when suddenly your practiced routine is thrown off!

This is the case because at the moment it's a practised sequence of actions that you have to remember, without yet having the understanding that links all these actions together in a way that makes sense.

Inevitably, landing back at base will always be more familiar than going somewhere else, just as driving around your local roads is more familiar than driving somewhere else.

But the driving doesn't change when you go on a road trip - just the road signs and the scenery.

It's the same with flying.

Flying off to somewhere you've never been before I'm expecting to be proper terrifying.

This expectation will change, worry not :)

Everything we learn to do starts off by being impossible. If we do it enough, it becomes easy.

'Difficult' is just a place between 'impossible' and 'easy', and passing through it is inevitable - and indeed to be welcomed and embraced - if you want to learn to fly, or to do anything else.
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1861025
TopCat wrote:
jcal wrote:Ah yeah I can imagine it gets 10x harder when suddenly your practiced routine is thrown off!

This is the case because at the moment it's a practised sequence of actions that you have to remember, without yet having the understanding that links all these actions together in a way that makes sense.

Inevitably, landing back at base will always be more familiar than going somewhere else, just as driving around your local roads is more familiar than driving somewhere else.

But the driving doesn't change when you go on a road trip - just the road signs and the scenery.

It's the same with flying.

Flying off to somewhere you've never been before I'm expecting to be proper terrifying.

This expectation will change, worry not :)

Everything we learn to do starts off by being impossible. If we do it enough, it becomes easy.

'Difficult' is just a place between 'impossible' and 'easy', and passing through it is inevitable - and indeed to be welcomed and embraced - if you want to learn to fly, or to do anything else.


Wise words indeed @TopCat .
By jcal
#1863215
Harry.Brown wrote:Your new FI is good because he understands Teaching and Learning, unfortunately many FI’s have little idea of how to teach efficiently and believe they are doing you a favour by throwing in everything that they can think of during a lesson. Less is more, to the efficient knowledgable FI!

It should be fairly obvious to a FI that there is only so much new information a student can take in during each session. The fact that one FI thinks you should be using the radio at this stage and another doesn’t shows you that there is poor or little standardisation at your school. The R/T doesn’t need to be introduced until the second session of circuit training. Trying to introduce it now, when you do not need to use the radio, puts unnecessary pressure on yourself both in the air and on the ground and takes away learning capacity from other subjects such as Threat and Error and Exercise 1, Ex 2 and Ex 5. The problem with skipping ahead is it usually means that the important aspects that are relevant to the stage of air exercise you are at skimmed rather than learned.

You mention PAT and APT etc which are all part of technical skills. Non technical skills, which we (us) refer to as Aircraft Management are even more important. It’s of little use to be able to fly to +/- 150 feet and then fly into another aircraft.

Nothing should ever be, quote, ‘sprung on you’. One of the golden rules of flight instruction is that you never teach or fly anything in the air that you haven't already briefed on during a pre flight briefing, that’s it’s purpose.

Your training manual, that the school most likely sold you, should take you through the syllabus stage by stage but don’t just read it, learn it.

Excellent advice Harry, thanks!

I have indeed been very lucky with my FI, turns out he's also very popular, so I'm having trouble booking in the lessons I want with him unfortunately! The disadvantages of having a great FI :lol:.

The problem with skipping ahead is it usually means that the important aspects that are relevant to the stage of air exercise you are at skimmed rather than learned.

This rings very true to me. I've mentioned this before but I'm a very methodical learner and while it might take a bit longer to learn something I really hope to properly understand it before "moving on". So far I think that's hold true.

Your training manual, that the school most likely sold you, should take you through the syllabus stage by stage but don’t just read it, learn it.

Again, very solid advice. I did read the manual through the first time before starting flying, which was helpful, but the most helpful by far is when I recap the relevant chapters before and after a lesson. Really understanding it in context is extremely valuable.
By jcal
#1863217
This reminds me, I need to post an update on my last lesson!

Lesson 5

I think this was the first lesson that I actually struggled a bit. We're doing climbs and descents, and it had been almost 2 weeks since my last lesson (several cx due to weather, and just hard to find slots to book), so I think I was a bit rusty.

In the lesson previously we had really drilled in straight and level so that was still ringing in my head when suddenly we're supposed to go up and down! You're telling me I can't just stick to going in straight lines?? :lol:

Overall it went well though, it was pretty windy so we were being bumped around a lot and I overshot my target altitudes a few times. Climbs were harder than descents, can't see anything but sky above me so hard to keep a reference point.. Let's get close and personal with cloud shapes I guess!

I'm starting to guess things are only getting harder from here before they get easier, looking forward to it but also prepared to bring it up a gear.

Biggest hurdle right now however is finding lesson slots that coincides with weather, a/c availability, FI time and work time.... Do you guys have a special ritual that gets you your hours booked more reliably? An anti-rain dance? A voodoo totem? I'm willing to try anything!
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