Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

By B737
#1856590
Hi there, recently passed my skills test and I am planning a trip. Your help would be appreciated with this as I have never dealt with something like this.

My flight plan requires me to enter multiple control areas and the control zone, how would I ask for clearance to enter these controlled areas?

I am aware that to enter the CTR I would request for a zone transit but what would I ask if I have to enter all 3 of these controlled areas?

Thanks in advance.

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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1856599
It’s all Class D - just request ‘Transit of Controlled Airspace’ on first contact.

The controllers don’t distinguish between different segments as far as you are concerned. Even if you asked for a ‘zone transit’ before entering the CTA, they’d know what you meant.
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By VRB_20kt
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1856603
Teesside should accommodate you without a problem but TBH I’d probably take my dogleg into the Leeming MATZ but avoiding the ATZ or fly at 4,000ft over it. Take care to avoid the Teesside CTA if you adopt the MATZ penetration route. Any of the options is likely to be successful
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By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1856609
As you approach the class D boundary simply ask for a Zone Transit. You'll be asked to pass your details as per the standard CAP 413 dialogue.

I'm surprised this wasn't covered in your training....
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By rikur_
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1856614
A few thoughts:
1) There are not usually any issues transiting Teesside - a good place to gain some familiarity with this (but always have a plan B for when it's busier than you expected - a few weeks back I was no 4 for the ILS at Teesside!).
2) I don't know where your route goes further south that shown, but personally I would avoid transiting east of the MATZs as this is hill soaring glider territory. I'd normally follow the A1 to the west, or overfly the MATZ (the gliders tend to avoid the MATZ). That said, MATZ transits at Leeming are usually pretty easy to get at the moment ... so you could plan to fly through at 3000ft, with overflying as a plan B.
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#1856643
Another thing to bear in mind is that route takes you smack through the departure route if on Westerlies, and the arrival route on Easterlies, so a reroute is possible if there is any other traffic around. routing via the overhead is usually a better option.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1856798
malcolmfrost wrote:Another thing to bear in mind is that route takes you smack through the departure route if on Westerlies, and the arrival route on Easterlies, so a reroute is possible if there is any other traffic around. routing via the overhead is usually a better option.


You'd think, wouldn't you? However there are some controllers who think that transiting via the overhead is the most dangerous thing you could do and will avoid it at all costs. This used to be the view of a couple of controllers who used to post on here, and I've had it at East Midlands, where I was aiming, fat, dumb and happy, towards the overhead. The controller had me descend, change course and orbit to cross over the approach path, playing chicken with the incoming jets, squeezing between two of them!
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1856803
I don't see anyone answering who to talk to.
If you tap and hold in a location in SkyDemon it will tell you. Image

Note the NOTAM - when teeside is closed it reverts to Class G so you don't need to talk to anyone
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By Rob P
#1856805
riverrock wrote:Note the NOTAM - when teeside is closed it reverts to Class G so you don't need to talk to anyone


Handy if the OP has a night rating.

Rob P
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By JonathanB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1856806
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
malcolmfrost wrote:Another thing to bear in mind is that route takes you smack through the departure route if on Westerlies, and the arrival route on Easterlies, so a reroute is possible if there is any other traffic around. routing via the overhead is usually a better option.


You'd think, wouldn't you? However there are some controllers who think that transiting via the overhead is the most dangerous thing you could do and will avoid it at all costs. This used to be the view of a couple of controllers who used to post on here, and I've had it at East Midlands, where I was aiming, fat, dumb and happy, towards the overhead. The controller had me descend, change course and orbit to cross over the approach path, playing chicken with the incoming jets, squeezing between two of them!


I'm not an aeroodrome or approach controller, so this is pure conjecture, but I suspect it's to do with your transit altitude and the missed approach procedure. Basically it's not a great idea to be in the sort of place someone else might be if they bin their approach for whatever reason.
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By Sooty25
#1856808
@Adrians Krauklis is there any chance you can take someone with more experience with you? If you've only just passed you GST, you might not be prepared for the increase in cockpit workload, particularly if ATC throws in "plan c", followed by "plan d".
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1856810
JonathanB wrote:I'm not an aerodrome or approach controller, so this is pure conjecture, but I suspect it's to do with your transit altitude and the missed approach procedure. Basically it's not a great idea to be in the sort of place someone else might be if they bin their approach for whatever reason.


Sure, but isn't it similar to sequence traffic for what may happen as to what is happening? I suppose it's not possible to say, "See those two airliners? Head for the gap between them, best speed!"
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By Rob P
#1856812
Sooty25 wrote:@Adrians Krauklis is there any chance you can take someone with more experience with you?

@Sooty25

My take is that you are being overly cautious.

There's no better time to get comfortable with transits, the OP has SkyDemon and a perfectly simple get-out of "remaining outside CAS" if it all starts to get too complicated (unlikely)

Just my 2p.

Rob P
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By Sooty25
#1856888
Rob P wrote:
Sooty25 wrote:@Adrians Krauklis is there any chance you can take someone with more experience with you?

@Sooty25

My take is that you are being overly cautious.

There's no better time to get comfortable with transits, the OP has SkyDemon and a perfectly simple get-out of "remaining outside CAS" if it all starts to get too complicated (unlikely)

Just my 2p.

Rob P


Fine line between overly cautious and Gung ho.

Not sure "some bloke called Rob on an internet forum said I'd be fine", will carry much weight in a Gatwick meeting investigating why KLM123 from AMS had to orbit while a low hours Adrian was trying to reboot his iPad!
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By Rob P
#1856889
It all sounds a bit "Cross-channel checkout" to me. But hey, I'm sure the OP can decide what suits him best.

That a simple transit could be thought of as being gung ho worries me.

Rob P