Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

By S7ewie
#1852593
Hi all,

I'm going to apologise in advance because this is going to be a wall of text! I have a ton of questions and I'm struggling to find the best place to ask them so I thought I'd try here. Please don't feel like you need to reply to everything, but any help is appreciated.

First, I'll introduce myself. My name is Stuart and I live in Suffolk. I have no previous experience in aviation aside from the odd simulator on my PC. It was always my dream to be a pilot as a kid but it quickly got swept aside due to the slight inconvenience of not being a rich kid :(

Last week, for my 30th, my girlfriend got me a trial lesson in a R44 helicopter. We got quite lucky because the company doing it needed to fly to another aerodrome to swap helicopters for a service so they asked if we wanted to make that part of the experience. We accepted, and in return got to fly from Elstree to Denham, swap helicopters, chill in their lounge and fly back. I was given control and allowed to fly for some of the journey and was also given a chance to try hovering back at Elstree (its hard). I loved every minute and so did my girlfriend who got to sit in the back and was quite nervous about going.

Since then, I'm been obsessing with learning to fly so I have a bunch of questions..

1. Is there any rivalry between plane and helicopter pilots? I’m curious if I were to visit a local plane flying club and start talking about helicopters, will I get stepped on? Haha

2. What does a PPL(H) cost? I realise this is a very subjective question and depends on what aircraft and how long it takes among other things. But I’m struggling to work out costs without contacting every flight school directly and asking them for a break down. I’ve seen a range between £10’000 and £30’000. What’s the minimum you should budget for and what’s the average?

3. Is learning to fly a helicopter more expensive than a plane? Hourly tuition on a plane seems to cost a lot less.

4. Once you start the PPL, are you time-gated to finish it? As in, do you have to complete it within a year? What happens if you don’t?

5. I’m curious what private flyers do to fly and keep current. Do you have your own helicopter? Do you hire? Do you share? I get that it’s an incredibly expensive hobby, but is there anything you can do fly regularly and reduce costs?

6. Can anyone recommend any flight schools in Suffolk? Or around East Anglia and Essex?

7. Is it worth looking at Careers or just treating it as a hobby? It looks like there’s a big jump between PPL and commercial and there’s lots of competition. What kind of salary do commercial pilots expect?

8. This ones more for personal interest. I fly a drone for work so I’m required to know a little about basic air law. From my understanding, aircraft have to stay above a minimum 500ft outside of restricted and controlled zones with a few exceptions (for this reason, I can’t fly above 400ft). Planes typically have little need to, but considering helicopters can pretty much land where they like, can they go below whenever they like? Or only during planned and emergency landings? I’ve seen some low helicopters go over when I’m surveying in open areas with no notams.. just trying to understand if they just look low to me or they could legally be below 500ft.

If you’ve made it this far, congrats! Haha. If you can help with any of my questions I’d be very appreciative :D

Thanks
User avatar
By Rob P
#1852606
I will take the easy ones
S7ewie wrote:
1. Is there any rivalry between plane and helicopter pilots? I’m curious if I were to visit a local plane flying club and start talking about helicopters, will I get stepped on?

There is banter, but we are all in love with the freedom of the air, it's just some of us make less of an unpleasant racket when enjoying it :lol: (See what I mean?)
S7ewie wrote:3. Is learning to fly a helicopter more expensive than a plane?

Yes (We call them 'aircraft')
S7ewie wrote:4. Once you start the PPL, are you time-gated to finish it?

No (This is a massive generalisation and to spin it out for years takes careful management of the theory exams.)

And welcome.

Rob P
JAFO liked this
By S7ewie
#1852608
Thanks @Rob P !

I think I’ll go visit a couple of local aerodromes and try to make some Pilot friends the haha. Hopefully it’s an accepting community :D

What makes learning to fly a helicopter more expensive by the hour? Are helicopters just more expensive in general? Or more expensive to run?

Edit: Are you saying you just call planes “aircraft”? I assumed “aircraft” was any vehicle that flew haha?
Last edited by S7ewie on Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852611
I'm not a helicopter pilot and I'll do some easy ones, but not necessarily with correct answers!

S7ewie wrote:1. Is there any rivalry between plane and helicopter pilots?


Yes. :D

S7ewie wrote:I’m curious if I were to visit a local plane flying club and start talking about helicopters, will I get stepped on?


They'll tell you to go elsewhere!

S7ewie wrote:2. What does a PPL(H) cost?


Many many. Around twice what fixed wing costs if you do it in the cheapest of two seat helicopters.

S7ewie wrote:I’ve seen a range between £10’000 and £30’000. What’s the minimum you should budget for and what’s the average?


Possibly £10k fora fixed wing PPL, £30k for a helicopter PPL in an R44. It also depends on the area of the country. Maybe as low as £5k for a microlight PPL.

S7ewie wrote:3. Is learning to fly a helicopter more expensive than a plane?


Yes. 2x or so.

S7ewie wrote:Hourly tuition on a plane seems to cost a lot less.


Yes. Maybe half. Microlights even less, maybe a third.

S7ewie wrote:4. Once you start the PPL, are you time-gated to finish it?


Yes.

S7ewie wrote:As in, do you have to complete it within a year?


Two years I think.

S7ewie wrote:What happens if you don’t?.


I think the hours before the two year cut off don't count any more and you'd have to repeat them. I'm not in training though so I don't exactly know, some others would be able to give a better answer.

S7ewie wrote:5. I’m curious what private flyers do to fly and keep current.


It varies. Some people rent, some people buy a share in an aircraft, some people own their own outright.

S7ewie wrote:Do you have your own helicopter?


Me? No, but I have my own aeroplane.

S7ewie wrote:is there anything you can do fly regularly and reduce costs?


Find yourself some rich friends who are happy to share the costs to go somewhere! Or "buddy up" with another pilot so one flies somewhere, the other flies back.

S7ewie wrote:7. Is it worth looking at Careers or just treating it as a hobby? It looks like there’s a big jump between PPL and commercial and there’s lots of competition. What kind of salary do commercial pilots expect?


No one can answer that for you. What do commercial pilots earn? Usually somewhere between £25k and £60k. £60k after 30 years in the game...even more as a senior airline captain in a national carrier.

S7ewie wrote:From my understanding, aircraft have to stay above a minimum 500ft


You have to be a minimum of 500ft from any person, structure, vehicle or vessel when not taking off or landing. Outside that, or when taking off or landing, you can be as low as you like. Landing usually requires you to be quite low.

S7ewie wrote:Are helicopters just more expensive in general?


Yes.

S7ewie wrote:Or more expensive to run?


Yes.

They take more fuel for the same flight, but as well as that, they try and shake themselves to bits every time you fly, so many of the airframes are of limited life and overhaul/replacement has to be taken into account.
Rich V liked this
By S7ewie
#1852615
Paul_Sengupta wrote:Many many. Around twice what fixed wing costs if you do it in the cheapest of two seat helicopters.


Why so much more? Are they that more expensive to run?

Paul_Sengupta wrote:You have to be a minimum of 500ft from any person, structure, vehicle or vessel when not taking off or landing. Outside that, or when taking off or landing, you can be as low as you like. Landing usually requires you to be quite low.?


So there's nothing stopping you (legally) going lower than 500ft when traveling over open fields? Even if its not part of your flight plan? I'm not talking about landing specifically, just traveling in open airspace. If I'm using a drone to survey a field at 350ft, is there anything stopping a pilot from swooping over the hedge and crashing into it?
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By carlmeek
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852618
Paul_Sengupta wrote:But running costs for one of those are more than I earn!


You’d be surprised. Unless you are on a very very low salary that isn’t true.

A lot of luck is involved. If the flux capacitor goes offline then it’s gonna be expensive, but with a decent bit of luck running costs are less than a twin GA aircraft.
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852619
S7ewie wrote:1. Is there any rivalry between plane and helicopter pilots?

Yes - although friendly! Helicopters beat air into submission while airplanes fly though it. :thumright:
It takes much more power to make a helicopter fly, which increases all costs.
Because of the amount of downwash helicopters produce, they can damage light airplanes, so often kept separate on the ground.
2. What does a PPL(H) cost?

Lots.

3. Is learning to fly a helicopter more expensive than a plane? Hourly tuition on a plane seems to cost a lot less.

I suggest reading through this:
https://www.britishhelicopterassociatio ... s-2016.pdf
It's a few years old (2016). Prices start from around £12k but as you say, go up based on many things. Fixed wing starts around £6k. Few people complete the courses in minimum hours.

4. Once you start the PPL, are you time-gated to finish it? As in, do you have to complete it within a year? What happens if you don’t?

Theory exams: yes. Practical, currently not. The longer you take, the more relearning you need to do, but the lessons are part of the fun - not to be seen as a chore!
5. I’m curious what private flyers do to fly and keep current. Do you have your own helicopter? Do you hire? Do you share? I get that it’s an incredibly expensive hobby, but is there anything you can do fly regularly and reduce costs?

Not many helicopter pilots on here. How you access an aircraft will depend on your mission profile and finances. Hiring often means limited access to the aircraft, stricter rules on how it's used, you may be discouraged from taking it away for days on end. You may need to pay something per month to stay part of the hiring group.
A share is more flexible, depending on the size of the group, but you need to get in with those you share with and you may need to be more responsibility towards maintenance etc (as a partial owner). Sharing is a great way to stay in contact with like minded pilots and being costs significantly down.
Full ownership has most flexibility, but any issues are yours and you become responsible legally and financially for the aircraft - nothing in aviation is cheap.

8. This ones more for personal interest. I fly a drone for work so I’m required to know a little about basic air law. From my understanding, aircraft have to stay above a minimum 500ft

No.
Manned aircraft can go as low as they want, so long as they maintain 500 feet from anything man made (this is shortened version) or going over a town (must be able to glide clear / stay 1000ft above) and there is an exemption if landing.
By S7ewie
#1852620
Thanks @riverrock !

Good to know about the 500ft rule. Was taught in my training that only military aircraft can go below 500ft without prior planning in open airspace :roll:. Will definitely be more careful in future when low flying aircraft are in the area.

Is there a similar forum where I might find more helicopter pilots?
By S7ewie
#1852634
@JAFO - Haha thanks! :P Is that "Virage"? I'll send them an email. To be honest, If I could afford it, I'd learn to fly both. I love planes too, I just prefer the freedom of a helicopter. I like the idea of being able to fly between my friends farms and take them for a ride haha.
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852635
S7ewie wrote:Thanks @riverrock !

Was taught in my training that only military aircraft can go below 500ft without prior planning in open airspace

Would be great to know your training provider, so that can be educated...

The Skyway Code is a fairly easy to digest version of all the rules, but it is probably too much detail at your stage:
https://www.caa.co.uk/General-aviation/ ... yway-Code/
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By JAFO
#1852637
S7ewie wrote:@JAFO - Haha thanks! :P Is that "Virage"? I'll send them an email. To be honest, If I could afford it, I'd learn to fly both. I love planes too, I just prefer the freedom of a helicopter. I like the idea of being able to fly between my friends farms and take them for a ride haha.


I'd pop in if you're in the area. Is that your part of Suffolk?
By S7ewie
#1852644
riverrock wrote:Would be great to know your training provider, so that can be educated...


Its a pretty basic course to be honest, so I imagine they're jus trying to keep things simple. I think most people are using drones in built up areas so in those cases, staying below 400ft makes sense. They don't tend to go through every scenario and me predominantly working in big open fields isn't quite as common.

Good to know its not quite that simple though, I've learned something today so will be more careful in the future :) If I'm anywhere near an aerodrome I tend to give the tower a call and/or set up a notam anyway but that doesn't always help when you have an aircraft pilot impulsively decide they want to do a low altitude tour of the countryside.

JAFO wrote:I'd pop in if you're in the area. Is that your part of Suffolk?


Actually no, I'm the other side haha, near Bury St Edmunds. So closer to Cambridge to be honest but I don't think they have a school there at the moment? Or at least I couldn't find one when googling.