Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

#1847170
Top Cat
Perhaps insulting was the wrong word, misjudged perhaps.
And the remark did certainly make me think about my own capabilities.
Not as a result of the comment but as a matter of course, I’ll take instruction, and have done so, at any opportunity.
I also feel I’m being misjudged here quite a bit.
You don’t know me, nor how much I like to improve at every chance, I certainly don’t consider myself as any kind of expert or God.
All I’m doing is trying to point out my own experiences and some of what I consider to be sub optimal instruction.
Perhaps I’m completely wrong but I feel I’m being considered in a bad light because of the way I’ve tried to describe it.
My apologies if I’m coming across all wrong.
User avatar
By akg1486
#1847203
Given that the Student Forum is supposed to be a place where people aren't too aggressive, perhaps the OP drew the conclusion that the Forum as a whole wasn't the place for him/her.

As I read the first post, the OP was wondering how to file a complaint against a former FI/school. Very few responses even tried to answer that.
User avatar
By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1847211
akg1486 wrote:Given that the Student Forum is supposed to be a place where people aren't too aggressive, perhaps the OP drew the conclusion that the Forum as a whole wasn't the place for him/her.

As I read the first post, the OP was wondering how to file a complaint against a former FI/school. Very few responses even tried to answer that.


As above
User avatar
By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1847216
There are good instructors and bad instructors, but if I had chosen an outfit and instructor for a revalidation flight which I can do at any point in 12 months with anyone I like and got the feedback I did not demonstrate solo-status then I would have a serious look at my performance.

Somewhere along the line I clearly had made a serious error of judgement, be it in assessing my flying skills, or choosing the instructor/outfit.

BTW for an instructor to suggest someone is not up to scratch takes more than that little catalogue of events.

But we know that examiners that pass are great, those who find fault are rubbish...
User avatar
By akg1486
#1847224
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:
akg1486 wrote:As I read the first post, the OP was wondering how to file a complaint against a former FI/school. Very few responses even tried to answer that.


Several gave a very helpful reply.

I do not see any flaming.

Yes: there were helpful responses. Especially from the poster representing AOPA. Kudos to that poster. As for some of the others, I might be a snowflake but I found them very much less than helpful.

Hopefully disrespectful FIs are soon a thing of the past. (Can't comment on the OP situation of course.) I have luckily not had any personal experience of being belittled or shouted at, but I know pilots who have.
#1847225
akg1486 wrote:Can't comment on the OP situation of course.)

Nor can I, hence the reason I have not speculated either way, nor offered advice on a situation I know nothing of. :wink:

I do think it worth noting (and with no reference to the OP), however, that one student's belittling may be the straight talking another responds to.

PS
Did this thread not start in GA? :?
User avatar
By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1847230
I think that it is not surprising that the story as depicted was considered a tall story. I cannot make any comment on the veracity of the account, but being told to scrape off ice from a window in a C150 whilst videoing the event?

What further advice then to send that to the CAA is required? And if the OP did not think of that, surely the CFI or school #2 had suggested or done it.
#1847237
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:There are good instructors and bad instructors, but if I had chosen an outfit and instructor for a revalidation flight which I can do at any point in 12 months with anyone I like and got the feedback I did not demonstrate solo-status then I would have a serious look at my performance.

Somewhere along the line I clearly had made a serious error of judgement, be it in assessing my flying skills, or choosing the instructor/outfit.

BTW for an instructor to suggest someone is not up to scratch takes more than that little catalogue of events.

But we know that examiners that pass are great, those who find fault are rubbish...



My event was six years ago.
To either confirm or remove any doubt in my case I shall enlist the service of an instructor that I have every confidence in at the first opportunity, (am I allowed to do that or am I likely to pick a cowboy as bad as I seem to be?). My own credibility is in question here.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1847246
Crash one wrote:My event was six years ago.
To either confirm or remove any doubt in my case I shall enlist the service of an instructor that I have every confidence in at the first opportunity, (am I allowed to do that or am I likely to pick a cowboy as bad as I seem to be?). My own credibility is in question here.

To be clear, I'm not saying anything about your skills or your credibility. If you re-read my earlier comment you'll notice that I made no comment about them at all. As you point out, I don't know you, and I don't know anything about your flying, and nor do I care much.

What I commented on was your description of your reaction to being told by an instructor that he wouldn't send you solo. You said it was insulting and not nice.

As I said, you could be a skygod and the instructor a complete dipstick. FAIK, your flying is fine, and the instructor wrong. In the absence of evidence, I have a completely open mind on that.

All I'm saying is that it kinda rings an alarm bell in my head if someone is told by an instructor that they're not safe enough to be sent solo, takes it as an insult, and disregards it.
#1847256
Crash one wrote:Top Cat
Perhaps insulting was the wrong word, misjudged perhaps.
And the remark did certainly make me think about my own capabilities.
Not as a result of the comment but as a matter of course, I’ll take instruction, and have done so, at any opportunity.
I also feel I’m being misjudged here quite a bit.
You don’t know me, nor how much I like to improve at every chance, I certainly don’t consider myself as any kind of expert or God.
All I’m doing is trying to point out my own experiences and some of what I consider to be sub optimal instruction.
Perhaps I’m completely wrong but I feel I’m being considered in a bad light because of the way I’ve tried to describe it.
My apologies if I’m coming across all wrong.


Top Cat.
I can only repeat the above.
Maybe I don’t pick the right words to describe something, maybe I get myself wound up unnecessarily.
I certainly take it seriously if I think my competence is questioned, though in that particular case he appeared to be in a hurry, no debrief was mentioned, he didn’t know what paperwork was required, (none) for a NPPL, after advice from another instructor, he signed me off logbook and licence, then smiled and remarked “ I bet you won’t fly with me again!” If an instructor tells me to do something, (fly vis circuits on compass) I try to comply, I did not make any comment or display an “attitude” I don’t have an “attitude” so whoever said maybe he didn’t like my attitude doesn’t know me at all.
Flyin Dutch “Instructors that pass are great, those that fail are useless!” What a stupid remark that was.
I didn’t do anything about the incidents or remarks because I didn’t feel that they were important enough to make a fuss and he didn’t seem inclined to explain his reasons.
On leaving the aircraft it was me, in an attempt at conversation after the debacle of circuits, asked, “would you send me solo?” “Not without further training”. As he was striding purposely to the office.
I felt like some naughty school boy.
Now on here I’m made to feel like some prat that won’t take advice or a telling and knows it all.
Last time I express an opinion on this kind of thing!
#1847258
Miscellaneous wrote:@Crash one I'd fly with you no worries.:thumright:
I do however question you not being able to anticipate how your post would come across and the likely reaction to it. Whether in thought, or text. :?


For once Misc, thank you and I agree, I should have and prob did know what to expect.
However, having been loosely involved with numerous instructors over a period of 65 years I thought I might be allowed to have a reasonably valid opinion. :D
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1847266
Crash one wrote:...stuff snipped...
On leaving the aircraft it was me, in an attempt at conversation after the debacle of circuits, asked, “would you send me solo?” “Not without further training”. As he was striding purposely to the office.

He does sound rather unhelpful.
I felt like some naughty school boy.
Now on here I’m made to feel like some prat that won’t take advice or a telling and knows it all.

You keep defending yourself, but you're not being attacked. I commented on a comment. If you don't want your comments to trigger other comments, don't post on forums. If you didn't really mean what you said, then most of this discussion is moot.

But I can only go by what people write, not what I imagine they think.

Especially on the student forum, where IMHO demonstrating a positive attitude to feedback is important, I'm not apologising for commenting on what appeared, in the post I reacted to, to sound like an unproductive way of dealing with feedback.

FWIW, in your position I'd have felt bad too (it may surprise some here to discover that I'm human too :) ). I would have got a second opinion as a result.