Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By HedgeSparrow
#1845044
TopCat wrote:
HedgeSparrow wrote:... mild hypoxia to start so you performance will drop.

... hypoxia? :shock: :shock:
If you're getting hypoxia holding your breath in the hold-off, you're approaching wayyyy too fast.

I dunno, I've seen people spend a couple of minutes or more between calling final and touching down. :pale: :wink:
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1845048
HedgeSparrow wrote:
TopCat wrote:
HedgeSparrow wrote:... mild hypoxia to start so you performance will drop.

... hypoxia? :shock: :shock:
If you're getting hypoxia holding your breath in the hold-off, you're approaching wayyyy too fast.

I dunno, I've seen people spend a couple of minutes or more between calling final and touching down. :pale: :wink:

Indeed, knocking aerials off the roofs of the houses underneath - don't get me started on long flat airliner approaches.
By Fellsteruk
#1845054
Not sure on number landings or hours in the circuit but it took me a while I’d have to check my logbook.

For me it was the flare, everything else was fine but no matter what I did I was always landing flat. For some reason I thought I was flaring as much as I could with no more left to pull back, sub consciously I think I was scared I’d stall on final.

Proper did my instructors head in I think as it just wouldn’t click.

Than, one day in the circuit I cut the power on final a little quicker than I should and over the numbers I sunk a lot, following this I immediately pulled back, more than normal and landed with the best “softest” landing I’d ever done.

For me this event unlocked something in my brain about essentially not trying to land but rather keep her flying until you land after the flare.

Never had a flat landing since, make lots of other mistakes.

I was very much getting **** with flying and was losing the enjoyment because I couldn’t land so I get your frustration but stuck with it. You’ll click soon enough just takes time and sometimes it takes longer than normal you’ll get there!!
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1845076
Fellsteruk wrote:Than, one day in the circuit I cut the power on final a little quicker than I should and over the numbers I sunk a lot, following this I immediately pulled back, more than normal and landed with the best “softest” landing I’d ever done.

Sounds actually like you did it right, whereas having power on before wasn't actually doing you any good.

I'd got into the habit of having a trickle of power on, even coming over the hedge with the field made. My instructor said "if you don't shut that throttle and keep it shut when you don't need power, I'm going to pull the mixture on you".

He never did, and I don't know if he would have, but I got out of the habit quick. With hindsight, it was excellent advice.

My view is now that if you've got the field made, close the throttle, and even if you leave your hand on it, don't fiddle with it unless you need it.

Concentrate on the landing, and only the landing. It really does make a difference to have only one thing to think about.

If you haven't got the field made, you reduced power too much, too early. And if you don't know whether you've got the field made, you need to do more glide approaches.

I should add, once you attain sky-god status and have to start flying flat 3 degree approaches on the ILS, you'll need to keep the power on. But IMO this doesn't help the initial learning to land at all.
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By Micromouse
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1845475
Wow!!! A great number of helpful answers, the internet winds for today :-)

I was back up in the circuit today, and things have not yet clicked, but certainly improved. I mention the ratchet idea to my instructor (he had heard of it!!), and concentrated on pulling back a little and waiting for the reaction, then pulling a little more. and so on. I also avoided pushing rather releasing the yoke when I needed. The result 2 very good landings (his words) back to back, and a bounce.

Back in the air tomorrow so hopefully a little more improvement, but I'm feeling better

Wayne
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1845583
I'm with TopCat in that in my experience there was no click. My landings just steadily improved to the point where even the worst of them wasn't going to break the aeroplane. Which is where I am today, 25 years later, haven't broken one yet! :D
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By JAFO
#1845586
HedgeSparrow wrote:One that's often not mentioned is breathe. A lot of people anticipating another poor landing hold their breath. It doesn't take long (my theory) for mild hypoxia to start so you performance will drop. My suggestion is that once your landing checks ae complete and you are stabilised on approach, make a positive decision to breathe. Let out that old breathe and get some fresh air in your lungs.


That reminds me of an old story, The instructor had written in the students notes:

"Bloggs has the odd habit of holding his breath while attempting to land."

Then, a few flights later had written:

"Have joined Bloggs in the habit of holding my breath while he attempts to land."
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By Micromouse
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1845627
Fellsteruk wrote:It will come with time and sounds like it’s coming. Good luck for tomorrow.


Thanks. Today was interesting... 6 in the circuit with joins and all sorts going on - I actually felt quite sorry for Dave in the Tower. and my landings? Well its certainly getting better. Its surprising how much or how little you need to use during the hold off, but my instructor is liking where its going. Thanks everyone!!!

Wayne
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By Cessna571
#1845854
I think the main thing about landings is that every single one is different.

It’s about having a box full of tools that get you onto the ground in one piece and able to use the plane again.

It’s not about perfecting a single sequence of actions. It’s about using the correct tool at the correct time.
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1845870
Cessna571 wrote:I think the main thing about landings is that every single one is different.

It’s about having a box full of tools that get you onto the ground in one piece and able to use the plane again.

It’s not about perfecting a single sequence of actions. It’s about using the correct tool at the correct time.

Exactly right. When I was struggling to land, though, I not only had zero appreciation of this, but even if someone had told me, it wouldn't have made anything any easier.

Landing is taught as a sequence of actions, isn't it, and for most people, this works out ok.

I have just one data point on this topic - I taught someone to land my aeroplane after 3 instructors had given up on her. She could fly the approach perfectly well, it was just the last few seconds that she couldn't get.

So what I did was take her up to a safe height, and get her to fly level in the approach to the stall. Then, initially at about 10 knots above, accelerate gradually away, still in level flight.

We got closer and closer to the stall, but what she was practising was controlling the attitude of the aeroplane as the speed dropped. This of course is exactly what you do in the 'trying not to land' bit, except that the ground is very close and it's not nice if it bangs down.

Having developed the coordination required, and, more to the point I suspect, seen the process unfold several times with no pressure, she was able to apply the same technique to landing (which of course involved just not accelerating away again), and it worked out quite well.

Sadly she didn't go on to get a PPL, but she ended up believing in herself a bit more, I think. I certainly found the teaching experience very satisfying.
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1845871
I might add, actually, on a related note, I think the stall is generally taught in a very limiting way. It all happens too fast, and it's very difficult in those early days to appreciate what's going on. This IMO contributes to the fear of the stall. But that's another topic... :)
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By lobstaboy
#1845873
TopCat wrote:I might add, actually, on a related note, I think the stall is generally taught in a very limiting way. It all happens too fast, and it's very difficult in those early days to appreciate what's going on. This IMO contributes to the fear of the stall. But that's another topic... :)


It shouldn't really be like that. The slow flight exercises (exactly as you describe) lead nicely into stalling. Remember what is being taught are the warning signs of an impending stall in various stages of flight and configurations, and stall recovery - not how to stall the aeroplane as an aerobatic manoeuvre (though it's good to see one or two). The idea is to de-mystify stalling and to remove the fear.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1845879
lobstaboy wrote:The idea is to de-mystify stalling and to remove the fear.

Then why do so many people land nosewheel aircraft way too fast and flat?