Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1851776
editmonkey wrote:The mostly poor attempts at circuits/landings were due to being too high on final because it is *still* taking too long to get my landing config right. I've identified that this is because I'm still fumbling downwind checks

Have you totally memorised your downwind checks? By which I mean, so that (out of the aeroplane) you can recite them and mentally step through them, quickly, but still imagining each action, while you are doing something else?

If not, then do so.

Recite them, imagine each action, 20 times every day. While cooking, cleaning your teeth, driving a car, anything. But really, really learn them, so that you really, really know them. Get someone to test you on them while attempting to distract you.

Do the same for the actions on base and final.

My instructor told me to do this - he said, "we'll be starting circuits soon, learn the DW checks really thoroughly, I will test you on them, and unless you know them well, we won't be going up."

So I did.

You need these ancillary tasks to take only a tiny amount of your concentration at the moment, because as you're saying, they are distracting from the flying. If you need to think less about the checks, you'll have more head space for the flying, which will then seem easier.
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By Rob P
#1851778
TopCat wrote:Have you totally memorised your downwind checks?


And while we are at it, you do realise that these are actually 'joining to land' checks and once out of the circuit can be done at any reasonable distance during the joining process?

This leaves you even more relaxed in the circuit, and with more time for lookout.

Rob P
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By editmonkey
#1851795
TopCat wrote:Have you totally memorised your downwind checks? By which I mean, so that (out of the aeroplane) you can recite them and mentally step through them, quickly, but still imagining each action, while you are doing something else?
.


I honestly thought I had but they're not automatic yet, which means I haven't practiced enough. It's the multiple letters (the Ms and the Fs) that cause me to hesitate.. Mixture, Mags, ummm... what's the other thing... Master. And then I'll remember I haven't applied carb heat at the start. At which point FI says 'turn... you should be turning now... you need to avoid the village' and then I get confused as to whether I should still apply carb heat as we're turning, then we're on base, I'm being told off for taking too long, I can't find the runway, it all suddenly stacks up and I'm supposed to be descending but still wrangling with the carb heat conundrum so forget to apply it before powering down, get told off again and it *feels* like it all goes to total sh*t, which is probably an overstatement and probably (hopefully) feels worse than it is.

I will get there, and I'm going to practice this religiously over the next week.

Next week is a good breather. My usual FI is unavailable so going with a new guy and it'll be interesting to compare styles (to see if the abrasiveness is just me being overly-touchy with nerves and the stress of the workload and self criticism), and an opportunity to ask for a general handling session.
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1851797
By the way.... IMNSHO*, the mnemonic (BUMP etc) for the downwind checks is a terrible way of remembering. If you still have to think "what does M stand for", as you work through the list, then you don't know them yet.

Remember them as actions (which have meanings, and purposes). It's not a long list. The cadence of a spoken sequence of actions (with all the neurological wiring that goes with language), together with the visualisation of doing them, will be far more useful to your learning than a sequence of letters that then have to be translated into words, and only then into the actions you need to take.

I never learned the mnemonic, in fact. Couldn't tell you what the letters are, without reverse engineering them from the actions.
__
* Edit... before someone comments, irony noted.
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1851799
Rob P wrote:
TopCat wrote:...downwind checks?

And while we are at it, you do realise that these are actually 'joining to land' checks and once out of the circuit can be done at any reasonable distance during the joining process?

Yes, with the exception of carb heat. You want to know that there's no ice, and that the carb heat system is working at the latest possible time before reducing power for the approach.

I declared a PAN once, when I pulled carb heat to hot, and the knob and a foot of cable came out in my hand. I was a fair way from the field, and I had no idea whether it had opened or not, or partially. So I didn't really fancy a wide circuit or a go around, I wanted everyone out of the way.
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By Rob P
#1851800
TopCat wrote:I declared a PAN once, when I pulled carb heat to hot, and the knob and a foot of cable came out in my hand.


Been there, done that. Over the Bay of Genoa, setting out for Italy from Cannes. Flopped into Albenga for repairs, and if you know the circuit there, had a lot of fun scraping the hillsides while trying to keep the revs up.

I always regret that I didn't answer the ATC question "Do you need assistance?" in the affirmative. As I taxied past the fire station there were a lot of very pissed-off fireman standing around their kit, thwarted of the chance to race dramatically with the horns and lights on to the runway to save the distressed British PA22.

Rob P
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1851801
Rob P wrote:
TopCat wrote:I declared a PAN once, when I pulled carb heat to hot, and the knob and a foot of cable came out in my hand.


Been there, done that. Over the Bay of Genoa...

That's God agreeing with me about flying singles over water out of gliding distance from land... :tongue:
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By editmonkey
#1851807
TopCat wrote:By the way.... IMNSHO*, the mnemonic (BUMP etc) for the downwind checks is a terrible way of remembering. If you still have to think "what does M stand for", as you work through the list, then you don't know them yet.



Agree - especially CBUMMMFFIHC - which is more difficult to memorise than the actions!

I'm trying to think of other ways of memorising them. Categorising them into priorities seems a bit more sensible maybe.

Engine: Carb heat, fuel, mixture
Airframe: Flaps, Brakes, Undercarriage
Safety: Hatches and harnesses
Electrics: Master and mags

Just tried it that way and it works. Only 4 things to remember. Can even make a better mnemonic: EASE, ha! :)
By Cessna571
#1851815
Everyone has their own, I was told BumfPich, but to me Bumpfich seemed more memorable.

Brakes
Undercarriage
Mixture
Propellor
Fuel
Instruments
Carb heat
Hatches and Harnesses.
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By VRB_20kt
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1851819
When you fly a range of types it’s useful to run the whole shebang just to make sure you don’t miss something.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1851828
VRB_20kt wrote:When you fly a range of types it’s useful to run the whole shebang just to make sure you don’t miss something.

Agreed. But for a new PPL student?

I'd say not. And even if you do want to run through the whole list, I'd still say that memorising the actions rather than the mnemonic is more useful.

'CBUMMMFFIHC'????????

WTAF?

It's a C152 goddammit.
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By editmonkey
#1851829
Exactly, right?! :lol: :shock:

Carb Heat
Brakes
Undercarriage
Master
Mags
Mixture
Fuel
Flaps
Instruments
Hatches Harnesses
Carb heat off.

I've been doing it all day with my four 'areas' of Engine, Electrics, Airframe and Safety and it's much more natural.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1851833
editmonkey wrote:I'm trying to think of other ways of memorising them. Categorising them into priorities seems a bit more sensible maybe.

Engine: Carb heat, fuel, mixture
Airframe: Flaps, Brakes, Undercarriage
Safety: Hatches and harnesses
Electrics: Master and mags

Just tried it that way and it works. Only 4 things to remember. Can even make a better mnemonic: EASE, ha! :)

I can see how this seems more logical (we love to categorise), but I don't think it's helpful in your specific situation unless it is also in the order you'd do them.

Even if it is, by creating categories, and then having to remember what is in each category, is just reproducing the same problem. If you have to remember a category, and then the things in each category, you have again created a level of complexity that you don't want.

There is no short cut to learning something that you need to know even under stress. You need to be able to remember them instantly, not have to think about a system for working out what the list contains.

Thinking is for working out what to do if you have an inflight 'situation' of some kind, not for remembering the list of stuff to check.

I mean, do what you want, but from the way you're talking about things, it hasn't been working out too well so far.

My suggestion would be this:

In the order that you do them, write down the list of actions. One per line, in English. Note, by the way, that your list above has no actions in it, just a list of items. Then memorise it, as I said earlier. Then make sure you can still recite the list easily and quickly even if someone is yelling in your ear or poking you in the side.

My list is:

  • Brakes off
  • Undercarriage down and locked
  • Mixture rich
  • Fuel pump on, sufficient for go-around, pressure in the green
  • Primer locked
  • Carb heat hot, check rpm decrease
  • Ts & Ps all ok
  • Carb heat cold, check rpm increase
  • Hatches shut and locked
  • Harnesses secure
  • Landing light on


I'm not saying this should be your list. But note that each one has something to do (set or check), it's not just a list of words. You also want to consider what you'd do if any of the check items isn't as you'd want.

11 things. Is that really so hard to memorise without making up categories, or working on a mnemonic?

Just my opinion... if you don't like it, I have others... :pirat:

___
PS I always left the undercarriage one in, because if I ever get into flying complex aircraft, I'd want that one to be ingrained. These days I use an abbreviated list, but I still remember the original one. Not sure I could ever forget it.
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1851834
editmonkey wrote:I've been doing it all day with my four 'areas' of Engine, Electrics, Airframe and Safety and it's much more natural.

I should add, in the context of my last, if the categories help you memorise the actions, then all good.

But it's still the actions you want to remember in the air, without having to work through the categories. If you still have to do that in the air, you still don't know them, and you'll still run out of time. Especially in a tight circuit.

Anyway, I'll shut up now, you (and the rest of the forum probably) will be relieved to hear. :pirat:
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By VRB_20kt
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1851842
TopCat wrote:It's a C152 goddammit.


There are only two things you might legitimately omit from BUMPFITCHH on a C152 and those are Undercarriage and Prop. Personally, I agree with you that leaving Undercarriage in is a Good Thing and that just leaves the Prop.

The Mnemonic is only a reminder and if it doesn't work then I suppose that another method could be sought. The important thing is that the checks are reliably completed in the available time even if/when you get interrupted. But the letters don't tell you what to do - just that something needs checking so for instance on a PA28 there are four elements to the fuel check whilst on a C150/2 there are only two. So for a student, learn what is needed for the aircraft in which (s)he's training whereas post training the letters will prompt necessary checks for the type being flown.

Incidentally, why (and how) are you checking the primer? It's something you will never use in flight and to check it seems to me to be introducing a possible mode of failure. It's locked and checked prior to take off. How will its status have changed?
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