[Paul_Sengupta]

@Paul_Sengupta
I think the 172 is like that as well, no steps at all and hold the “switch” as the indicator moves

Depends on the model (year) of 172 I guess. All the ones I've flown have had the flap lever with the detents if I remember correctly, like the 152, though I've only ever flown one of the earlier models with the Continental engine, all the others being the newer Lycoming engine versions.

I once bent a flap level slightly on a 172 so it engaged the positions on the left, like in the other 172s I'd flown, rather than sliding up and down on the right.

[Crash one]

Take a piece of KE 672 steel plate 1mm thick, cut and shape to match the shape it’s meant to be. Bend to fit, drill holes and then harden it so it doesn’t wear out. Rivet that to the back of the flap quadrant.
Then put the aircraft in the workshop and listen to the howling and screaming!!

[TopCat]

Are any of the Tatenhill students likely to be there late morning today? Considering it as a destination, would be fun to say hi.

[editmonkey]

What does the flap switch actually do in the C152? It's so long since I flew a Cessna that I can't remember at all.

Does it just have three positions, well, 4 including up, and you have to select one of them for the number of stages you want? Or can you put the flaps at any angle?

In the Cessna 150 it’s like a little electronic paddle switch that you push up and down. One push per stage of flaps. Easy.

The one I was in last week though is totally analogue. You have to hold the paddle down until it reaches the correct stage (shown on a scale on the left of the windshield) but there’s no automatic ‘stop’ or other indication. The flaps stop extending/retracting when you take your finger off the switch so you have to time it or physically look away at the scale. It’s tricky.

@Paul_Sengupta bananas is the winner. Going to spend some time on Monday timing the flaps during checks. Will make counting bananas a pre-landing checklist item

[T6Harvard]

@TopCat , not at Tatenhill till Monday

A couple of the others may be around. Follow the trail of cake crumbs to @Jammy888
Not heard from @GunnyD3v for a while.

[Paul_Sengupta]

@Paul_Sengupta bananas is the winner. Going to spend some time on Monday timing the flaps during checks. Will make counting bananas a pre-landing checklist item

[TopCat]

What does the flap switch actually do in the C152? It's so long since I flew a Cessna that I can't remember at all.

Does it just have three positions, well, 4 including up, and you have to select one of them for the number of stages you want? Or can you put the flaps at any angle?

In the Cessna 150 it’s like a little electronic paddle switch that you push up and down. One push per stage of flaps. Easy.

Yes but less fine control.

The one I was in last week though is totally analogue. You have to hold the paddle down until it reaches the correct stage (shown on a scale on the left of the windshield) but there’s no automatic ‘stop’ or other indication. The flaps stop extending/retracting when you take your finger off the switch so you have to time it or physically look away at the scale. It’s tricky.

Yes, this is like the Grumman AA5 series. Years ago, in mine, the indicator was bust for ages, so I just got into the habit of counting seconds (3s per 10 degrees), or I'd just glance sideways at the wing. Far preferable, in reality, you don't want to be looking inside any more than necessary in the circuit.

In the Grumman it's pull and hold to lower, push and release to raise them all the way. You have to positively return the switch to the central position to stop the flaps on the way up. I've been flying it so long that it's automatic, but it's quite easy at the beginning to inadvertently raise them all the way, especially if you knock the switch during the 'go' of a touch-and-go.

Presumably raising the flaps is the same - you push the switch the other way? Do you have to hold it pushed to raise them all the way or is it push and forget?

[editmonkey]

Presumably raising the flaps is the same - you push the switch the other way? Do you have to hold it pushed to raise them all the way or is it push and forget?

Hmmm, can't remember. I *think* you have to hold it all the way up. Going to check today if I can get up past the weather.

Was supposed to be starting basic nav today but going to ask for a circuits lesson to try and exorcise the demons from last week. Wish me luck!

[editmonkey]

Better lesson today.

10 circuits, mostly poor, last couple much better, but greased my last landing which felt really, really amazing. Even used the rudders to land straight, woop!

Taxying was also improved but still an issue, getting the differential braking right is a pain, especially when turning on the narrow runway for a backtrack, I keep forgetting to back off the throttle completely before braking because I'm focussing on where my feet are and what the FI is telling me. Then getting the invariable telling off as he loses his patience that I'm not pointed in the direction he wanted, or not raising the nose, or not braking properly and he takes over.

The mostly poor attempts at circuits/landings were due to being too high on final because it is *still* taking too long to get my landing config right. I've identified that this is because I'm still fumbling downwind checks, turning base in a rush, then taking too long to find the runway, or navigate myself onto the correct base heading, or just correcting the base heading. There's a delay in my decision making while I think through the correct actions, that I just can't seem to overcome. My FI told me I was saying the things out loud ('I think I'm too high, I think I'm on the wrong heading') but he couldn't understand why I'm taking so long to act on it. Me neither. I think I was waiting for affirmation, and I think it's because I'm still conscious that wrong decisions at 800ft are dangerous. But my confidence in my own ability feels very shaky.

Can't remember much of the detail of the lesson. Just a ton of too-high approaches and the runway suddenly appearing at a jaunty angle rather than the neat rectangle I was aiming for. First circuit I automatically (and stupidly) turned right, I think an auto-reaction because this was where we started last week due to the weather, but of course it's a left hand circuit. So I had to correct. It felt rusty and nervy, and yes, embarrasing. But I settled a bit and it came back quickly and there's some muscle memory beginning to form.

Think I only actually missed one approach completely. By about circuit 5 my brain was starting to seize and I was forgetting simple things like raising the flaps following the touch and go. Then my brain would kick in that I couldn't climb, raise the flaps and trim, only to forget to look for a landmark to turn onto. Argh!

The other dodgy ones were mostly down to being unable to find the runway, not being stabilised on the approach (which led to a quite pleasant experience of flying gently and speedily along at about 6 feet off the runway while the speed built up for the go around, like a Star Wars pod racer ) and flying odd shaped circuits because my speeds/climbs/direction finding was skew whiff. But I felt it starting to click towards the end, once I'd 'got' the shape of the airfield it became easier to spot. My FI thinks it's my sunglasses that are too dark and found it incomprehensible why I was wearing them when the sun wasn't out (it was bright and they do help cut through the haze a bit). I think I just have runway blindness, but am going to try without next time.

I still feel WAY behind the curve on approach - spending too much time trying to ascertain whether I'm too high/low/fast/slow/right/left, dealing with the inevitable exasperated comments (loaded with a sigh that quietly suggests 'why are you STILL not getting this), dealing with the airspeed.

I didn't almost kill anyone in a go-around stall this week, which was nice, only one little oops moment when I turned to look behind after a touch and go, strained against the harness and took the yoke backwards with me. Turned back around to see a bit too much sky. Stomach churn.

We had to switch to a right hander for the last circuit because of a complaint (I inadvertently flew over the local village a few times on wonky circuits) and my sense of direction went out of the window. (FI told the owner he thought we'd be okay because my approaches were so ridiculously high! ).

Found it difficult to lean forward and get a view out of the right hand window, seatbelt was too restrictive, couldn't ID the runway at all, by which point I was far too high *again* but I recovered with a power off glide, and that actually ended up being my greaser. I think my best flying happened when my instructor told me I was on my own, then I wasn't waiting for criticism and I just flew it. And landed it. And I landed it rather well.

The one bit of praise I did get was when I asked if we were going around again and was told, maybe it's best to end the lesson on a high note.

I know it's a small world on here but I am struggling a bit with my FI and the almost complete lack of positive feedback. I try to get on with people but there's very little rapport building up between us - I know rapport isn't strictly necessary - but it honestly just feels like the lessons are a massive chore. There's no joy or sense of fun in it like there was with my last instructor.

There was a point today I had to really hold back from asking to land so I could just walk away and call it a day. I felt so damn demotivated. But then we landed and he chipperly told me after two more lessons I'll probably be ready for a solo. I couldn't feel less ready for anything! Go figure.

[Fellsteruk]

It sounds like you had a proper workout lesson, don’t be so hard on yourself these things take time to get right, then consistent and for you to be confident.

Circuits and landing was the single hardest thing for me, I spend hours on hours on hours and still couldn’t get it. It got to the point I felt like leaving it then I had a few lessons on navigation as a break from the circuit and it really helped boost my confidence but ultimately it took me an age to crack it, I was well into the end of the 3rd page of my log book before I managed to get ex14 logged.

Take off and landing are the most demanding on you and leaning it all together is hard really hard and even small progress is still progress but if you feel it’s too much try having a break ask the instructor if you can do some Nav or steep turns they are fun!! it won’t be wasted hours.

Also and I don’t know him but it does seem like your instructor is the kind of guy... well you know like them parents who hate kids.

That said your flying on his license so if he things you’ll be ready for solo soon he must think your good enough even if you don’t.

Stick at it I know it’s a tough stage in the training but you’ll get it.

[editmonkey]

Thanks @Fellsteruk

Yeah definitely got the grumpy vibes. In one respect he's obvs pushing me hard which is good but think I might try someone else next week.

Anyway, yeah it felt a million times better than last week. I was rattling through the checks more and I think my basic flying was a bit better. Mad though, focussing so much on flying the circuit I find myself forgetting really basic stuff - had to focus on the order of PAT or APT at one point (admittedly later in the lesson). My grey matter just atrophied. It's good to hear that it was a struggle for you too though, gives me some hope I'll crack it in the end!

I think you're right, I'm desperate for a lesson just up in the sky playing with the plane for a bit. Doing some flying. I think it's emergencies next time, then another circuits session, then solo. Honestly though, if I'd been up by myself today I'd probably be in Manchester by now.

[T6Harvard]

Phew, another very high workload for you today @editmonkey .

You are beating yourself up too much! Come on, I'm not even safe to land yet and you've had a greaser!! And you improved from prev lesson. You can't ask for more than that.

I totally get what you feel about not jelling with Instructor. I need someone who is doing it so his students can learn to fly, not someone who wants to exchange witty remarks mid-air (I 'd be trying to keep up banter rather than flying ), or who seems to hate teaching!

Hopefully he just thinks you can do better but his way of getting you to do that is a bit off. In my head I'm hearing some sort of Sergeant brow beating the newbies.

I THOUGHT I'd need encouragement and metaphorical hand-holding to build my confidence. What I have got, as you will have gathered, is a very demanding, no nonsense, calls it as it is Instructor. I am responding by upping my game. He has not dented my confidence but then again he never makes it personal - he would never ask 'why are you still not getting this'. He does point out that he has told me before

It is possible that he will ease off a bit once he's got a better idea of how you learn but it does seem very harsh atm.

As for your flying, you're doing loads, well done!!

[AndyR]

Small point.

You’re the customer. If you want a break from circuits, then tell the instructor that. Go and do Ex19a. Or a land away. Or if you need it, just go and pole it round the sky. It can work wonders.

And consider another instructor....if they are a decent instructor they will know that not everyone fits like a glove.

[editmonkey]

Ha, I hope so @T6Harvard Think less sergeant major, more irritable grandpa who’s just been asked to do a flying lesson with an idiot student rather than watch the snooker.

He never directly asks ‘why are you still not getting this' (actually maybe he did, fairly, the third time he caught me braking at 1000 revs). It’s the tone.

Maybe I just need to grow a thicker skin and just remember the damn throttle before the brakes. And maybe not trying to steer on the ground with the ailerons rather than rudder pedals after the 9th circuit brain freeze.

Yeah the circuit flying has improved which is the MAIN thing. Just wish I could lose the overthinking and the nerves.

@AndyR you’re right and I think I’m going to try another FI. I think it would be sensible in any case to have another instructor I’ve flown with if #1 is off for any reason.

Edit: Day later and I’m pretty chuffed. Landed an aeroplane 9/10 times yesterday. Couldn’t have said that a couple of months ago. Everything else is just practice.

[TopCat]

You’re the customer. If you want a break from circuits, then tell the instructor that. Go and do Ex19a. Or a land away. Or if you need it, just go and pole it round the sky. It can work wonders.

So much agree with this ^^

Or pole it around the sky for a bit and come back for a few circuits. Or the other way around. Or a couple of circuits, off local for a bit, and then back for a couple more circuits.

A change is as good as a rest, sometimes.

Flying schools want to get people through the course, so they break it up into exercises that you do in order.

Which is all very well, but bashing away at the same thing over and over again isn't necessarily the best or most enjoyable way of learning.

As I and others have said, it's not about going solo in X hours (or Y log book pages for that matter).