Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By bladerunner911
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1855958
Thanks T6, I think we have both been doing the same thing! I read the books once each, last year to try and get a head start, I'm glad I did or I would be even more daunted by the exams :-) Some subjects are definitely easier to remember than others. Let us know what you instructor says, I'm interested to know wvwryone varying experiences!
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1855964
editmonkey wrote:Edit: Book rate of climb is 670fps. Can only imagine today was either humidity or the bag of choc orange buttons I ate last night :pig:

The POH usually specifies max weight for performance figures like this. Hopefully you weren't substantially *over* max weight.... :shock:

I don't think a warmish muggy day in England would, on its own, account for a max RoC of 200 fpm instead of 670 - assuming you used the right temperature and altitude from the book for this, that's a huge difference.

If it did, you'd never get off the runway in the first place.

You said it was a very thermally, gusty day. I suspect you were climbing into a patch of descending air in the climbout into the circuit, and if it was slow to accelerate, perhaps you pitched up a bit more aggressively than ideal. In descending air, the same nose attitude (judged visually) will give you a higher than usual AoA, and hence as I explained here, more drag, and hence less acceleration and rate of climb.

You also said the aeroplane didn't want to descend as you reduced power on base/final. The thermally, gusty conditions could easily account for this too if there you happened to be descending into ascending air.

Both of these situations are very common in rough air. Close to the ground all it needs is for the surface in one place to be hotter (concrete, brown fields) than in another place (cool grass, woods), or even just in shade rather than not, and you can get quite different rising/descending air effects and the wind can add even more uncertainty.

The answer is to make pitch changes up into the climb more gradually, and get the power off earlier in the descent.

You'll feel the thermals and which way they're taking you eventually.
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By editmonkey
#1856009
Unless those choc orange buttons were considerably dense we weren’t at max weight. :D

That sounds about right - the ground to base is undulating and hilly, and it was warming up considerably - about 10.30am - in the morning sun and humidity. We are both big lads though, and by my rough calcs our weight was probably just over 1500lbs fully fuelled with max t/o weight being 1600.

What I suspect may be also be the case is that this time I’ve just noticed it. Until now I’ve been so busy trying to remember all the things that I haven’t been fully aware of the climb performance. As the tasks are bedding in I’m maybe aware of it that bit more - for instance I realised I’m using (and trusting) the engine note now, and checking rather than fixating on the dial. Counting the flaps in more accurately (except when I don’t :))

Am I finally becoming one with G-XX? :lol:

Seriously though, it’s extremely fascinating, and it really feels like I’m getting into the nitty gritty of learning to fly. The actual physics of flight and weather and engines and how it all ties together.
Wish I’d done this 30 years ago when it could have been a career!
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By editmonkey
#1856102
bladerunner911 wrote:I was wondering how you are both getting on with the exams, I'm starting to study Air Law for real now and was wondering if you had any tips so far, I'm using easy PPL and the Pooleys books to study and do progress tests, but the subject is so dry, and some of the rules differences between SERA and the UK are bizarre - why can't t hey just make it one set of rules for the UK!!!


Hey! Nice to see you :) How are the lessons going?

So... I'm a terrible book learner, I don't have the patience or the concentration power so I'm leaving the exams until nearer the end when the theory is backed up with practical experience.

I have read the AFE books cover to cover, and I'm going through Met and Nav again now because the key info is becoming practically important to flying (or will be soon). I know from past experience if I read just to pass the exam it'll be forgotten in a year, but if I'm reading to practically apply it to flying and flight planning, it'll stick.

And then there's Air Law :)

I found a lot of Air Law fascinating but again, lots of it just didn't stick, even with rigorous note taking and revision. (I'm talking about the really dry legal stuff like the Chicago Convention articles. As important as they are, they're not exactly riveting).

The key practical elements I've found are presented in much more intuitive and accessible form in the Skyway Code and GASCO leaflets. Things like rules of the air, airspace classes, signals etc. Although I'm praying semaphore doesn't come up because lord only knows how I'm going to remember it.

I've been using the Pooley's exam prep books and they're very good, and actually I did one last night and some of the dry air law stuff has surprisingly made it through by pure osmosis. The rest came more from reading around the subject - AAIB reports, the CAA infringement narratives, Skyway Code and of course this forum. I also use an app called PPL Tutor - fairly cheap - and I do a run through of test questions every few days. It takes minutes and just helps it to bed in.

My plan is to cram the air law book - for the third time - the week before taking it to give the dry stuff a quick hose down. But do use the Skyway Code, it's very graphical and readable, and made much more sense to me than massive tracts of text.

My plan (and hope) is that I don't have to cram the others because the knowledge is somewhat assimilated through practical application.

And on that note - received the most exciting Pooleys package yet this morning. :D

I'm trying to work and it's sitting there. staring at me along with my nav book, egging me on to plan a future adventure :)

Incidentally - where is the Pooley's book on map folding?

Image
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By bladerunner911
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1856192
Nice to be able to find 5 mins to post and say hi! :thumright:
Lessons are going well thanks, my 6th is due this Sat if the weather behaves in the morning :)
I've done a couple of take offs which was exciting, especially the second one where I held a bit too much backpressure before rotation speed - I won't make that mistake again :oops:
Air sickness has now gone for now which is a big relief and I've started doing a bit of R/T on the ground too.
Taxying is slowly improving :wink: but still need to watch my speed more.
Overall I think I'm doing well, I have a great instructor and I really like the school so I'm a happy P/UT.

It sounds like you have a similar feeling about book learning to me - I learn much more quickly by doing things and seeing pictures than reading lots of dry text!
Thanks for ideas and the great suggestion about using Skyway Code for things like airspace classes, signals and the like - some things are better with diagrams and siome things just need to be memorised with text - and the books are a bit mixed in that regard. I will have another read of the code for the bits that are not sticking as easily!
I think I have to do Air Law before circuits or solo - can't remember - so want to make sure I ramp up smoothly and don't end up having to try and learn it all at the last minute. Work day and family can take up a lot of the day sometimes - I can see the appeal of doing intensive courses in the US :lol:

I bought the Pooleys starter kit last year and got the 1/2 mil chart - with it - everything is so tiny and crammed in compared to Sky Demon!. I think someone posted a map folding thread previously but I didn't get round to trying it - at least it's not an open cockpit with the map flapping around in the wind :lol:
I really want to make a trip to France and Scotland when I get a license - being in London France is actually a lot closer, but I'll wait a bit for that trip :)

Anyway, back to the books for now!
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By FlightDek
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1856226
editmonkey wrote:Incidentally - where is the Pooley's book on map folding?



Search online for
"McKillop map folding AOPA"
Download the .pdf and follow the instructions :thumleft:
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By editmonkey
#1856280
You know, I was kidding when I posted that but it really tickles me pink that the aviation community have developed good procedures for map folding. It's brilliant and I don't know why it surprised me. Thanks for the steer @FlightDek !!
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By editmonkey
#1856426
Hello all.

Compass North & Magnetic North:

The AFE book presents these as two different points on the Earth’s surface but aren’t they interchangeable terms for the same thing?
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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1856430
A completely accurate magnetic compass, free of any extraneous magnetic fields, will point to Magnetic North.

However, it will always subject to Deviation, which is the error introduced by the net sum of the magnetic fields produced by the airframe, engine and avionics. This error can be reduced to the minimum by adjustment, but there will always be some residual Deviation, which is recorded for the main points of the compass on the correction card close by.

Cadbury's Dairy Milk Very Tasty
Compass Heading +- Deviation = Magnetic Heading +- Variation = True Heading
Some people remember it the other way round with True Virgins Make Dull Companions.

I've not familiar with the AFE books, but presenting North as a point would seem odd. The Poles are points on the surface, North (of any flavour) is a direction from any given point.
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By editmonkey
#1857586
How amazing is the Whizz Wheel?! As a product of digital age loins, I grew up with calculators and computers. But I've been spending time the past few days calculating wind vectors and headings etc by hand and while it's obviously not quite as precise, I find using the wheel both faster and more intuitive (that you can actually visualise the wind/direction and speed on the circle has blown my mind).

Ok - maybe I'm easily impressed, and yes iPads probably negate the need for it, and no I couldn't do it in mid-air while referencing a chart and not becoming a human pancake - but it's such an elegant and beautifully designed piece of kit.

This is my whizzwheel. There are many like it, but this one is mine....

(Sorry - two weeks off flying and I'm a bit bored)
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By Rob P
#1857604
editmonkey wrote: ... it really tickles me pink that the aviation community have developed good procedures for map folding. It's brilliant and I don't know why it surprised me.


Just to fill your current boredom with some mildly interesting aviation lore.

The aviation community developed nothing, it was all the work of one man, a low hours, student pilot much like yourself.

Back in 1988 - yes they did have aeroplanes then - I was fortunate to wind up at Wellesbourne Aviation, an excellent flying school and club that no longer exists.

One of my fellow trainees was Duncan, a gangly, good-humoured type who was earning a fortune from doing computer things - we had those back then too.

We progressed at roughly the same rate, and when it came to ground school Duncan, Geoffrey, Keith and I ended up forming a loose study group. There was intense competition, any exam score below 100% was seen as letting the group down. Meetings were held after ground school in the Boars Head at Hampton Lucy, and were also attended by our instructor 'Captain' Rick Ions, a raconteur, bon viveur and grateful recipient of many pints of Flower Original funded by we four. We learned more about flying in the pub than in the ground school.

As we moved on to navigation we all became frustrated because Wellesbourne Mountford Aerodrome was awkwardly placed on the half mil and any flight over a few miles resulted in frantic chart folding and unfolding.

Then one night Duncan arrived, beaming, and brandishing his neatly folded chart. Whether he'd used computers or just his convoluted brain to work it out he had invented a fold that meant whichever direction you headed in, refolding was kept to a minimum. The McKillop fold was born, and rightly named after him. We thought it was a thing at Wellesbourne alone, but in modern parlance it went viral, and still has a valued role today.

Duncan went on to Yak 52 after he qualified, then lost his way and went over to eggbeaters and finally yottie stuff. Keith became an airline pilot, training captain and as far as I know still flies today. Geoff became my flying buddy and together we conquered Europe - well France at least.

Rick passed away a few years back, Duncan and I met up again at his funeral.

Me? I ended up here. :(

So when you flip the fold for the next bit of your QXC leg, say a small thank you to Duncan McKillop.

Rob P

An idle thought prompted by the last few days. I am so glad I learned at a school where the instructors were all amateurs in the job for the sheer joy of flying. Not one was an out-to-grass airline pilot trying to instil disciplined flying, holding height and course to within x degrees. I am uncertain that the return from Cambridge at about 400 ft, swerving around cottages so as not to break the 500ft rule was ever really in the syllabus, but Rick referred to it as 'bad weather' training. Without a GPS it actually is very difficult, but HUGE fun.
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By editmonkey
#1858729
Back up today after a two week break - I've really missed it! The overcast skies started lifting as I approached the airfield and it ended up being another gorgeous day for flying despite the chop which I'm growing to enjoy! We were first up and there was no one else in the circuit so had lots of time and space to get back on it.

And there's actually very little to report today. A bit of confusion with radio calls on the ground, but I caught myself just flying today and most of my attention was outside of the cockpit. Felt like a bit of a milestone. My first circuit was fine, better than expected after a break - forgot carb heat on base but picked it up quickly. I did my first flapless landings and there were no problems, although the completely different aspect felt weird. 5 t&g's, some surprise engine failures thrown in for good measure, and then my FI said he was going for a coffee. This time there was no-one waiting for a lesson so he told me to do as many as I liked for 45 mins or so (or as long as the bank account didn't explode), mix up the flapless and flaps.

So up I went again. Very little nerves this time - or at least just the good kind that keep you focussed. I did 4 circuits on my own, the most yet. What was interesting this time was that the circuit suddenly got very busy, which I've never had to deal with before. Bit of confusion after the power checks. I heard a muffled RT and the word 'final' but couldn't make out the callsign. So I waited, and waited and waited.... didn't know what the correct radio call was for this, so just said in plain-speak 'GXX- is there someone on final for 01?' And it turned out to be the right call, because there was a heli coming in. Didn't see him coming as I was looking for a plane.

I had another student behind me which was fine - her RT was really clear and I could always keep a good picture of where she was. Then the heli jumped in again, really quiet and muffled radio calls, found it difficult to even make out the callsign so I just made sure I was calling out my position on each turn and keeping a good eye out. Then a visiting plane joined the fray, I knew he was overhead for the join and likely in something faster than my C150, I was on crosswind so again - clear calls and a good lookout. (Is there a law that says the more experience the pilot, the more muffled the calls?) I'm sure this is just a case of getting my ear in.

And that was it. All my dual landings felt great. Solo landings: 2 lovely, 1 dodgy take-off where I swerved towards the verge (think it was the wind caught me) and I overcorrected with the rudder which was a bit nervy. 1 where I rounded too early, then sank onto the mains from a couple of feet too high and put down a bit harder than I'd have liked.

Bit more confusion as to the radio etiquette on the ground. I did my after landing checks at the holding point, our visitor landed and we were both ready to backtrack at the same time. Both sitting looking at each other over the runway - awkward moment of who goes first with me fighting to remember some appropriate RT terminology to handle the situation. 'G-XX, after you' seemed to work. Glad that discounted Comms book arrived yesterday. :lol:

But wow. I'm soloing and loving it - that's 1.45 so far. It's like getting the keys to your dad's car :)

(Oh and I took some gopro footage this time which I'll bore you all with later ;))
Last edited by editmonkey on Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:32 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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