Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1858834
Rob P wrote:Is he not just getting his hand in a position where he can easily take control should any student threaten to wipe the nosewheel off?

This must be the greatest skill a flying instructor possesses:

The ability to look completely calm, relaxed and unflustered at all times, while at the same time being completely alert and able to respond instantly if the student threatens to kill her.

Having done a number of Grumman checkouts over the years, I can certainly do the latter.

Half way there then...
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1858842
TopCat wrote:
Rob P wrote:Is he not just getting his hand in a position where he can easily take control should any student threaten to wipe the nosewheel off?

This must be the greatest skill a flying instructor possesses:

The ability to look completely calm, relaxed and unflustered at all times, while at the same time being completely alert and able to respond instantly if the student threatens to kill her.

Having done a number of Grumman checkouts over the years, I can certainly do the latter.

Half way there then...


My goodness, yes! I have no idea how Instructors do what they do with ab initio students!! It's all well and good at a safe height but near the ground..... Nerves of steel, lightning reactions, fearless. Plus they must get fed up when, despite everything, the student is just not yet 'getting it' :roll:
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By editmonkey
#1858849
I think it's a massive credit to FI's everywhere that training is carried out in such a safe way. I mean when you think about the possible consequences of sticking an eager, untrained human a few thousand feet up in a single-piston flying machine - and how few student accidents we see, it's pretty awesome.

(My FI is brilliant, we really get on famously, but every time he grabs that handle and braces against the coaming I do wonder if we have trust issues :lol: )
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By editmonkey
#1859905
Balls. Not a bad one today, just a frustrating one.

Another beautiful CAVOK day but my head just wasn't on right. We were doing a different circuit direction, this one very tight due to noise abatement. It's been my bogey circuit since the start and for some bleeding reason I just can't get configured properly on it. The turn to final is at about 400ft and where as the opposite circuit is wide with a late configuration, this one you have to get set up and start losing height immediately after the base turn, and I'm consistently WAY too high leaving me gliding it in steeply. Every single time.

Did 3 landings with FI, all sketchy, hard, with misjudged flares, but ultimately safe. Tried my first proper glide approach which was ok but again, put it down hard.

Nothing felt right. Felt nervy. Even my seat was giving me backache. We noticed fog all the way along the coast which was moving very slowly inland - but still an easy 6-7 miles away. So my instructor told me to land and do as many circuits as I wanted for about an hour, but to watch the fog and to come in if I felt uncomfortable.

So up I went, all was fine, but on downwind I saw the fog visibly moving, although still 5-6 miles away.

I think I was being massively overcautious but I radioed that the fog was creeping in and I decided to put down after a single circuit (still effing high leaving me doing final on idle, but landed it nicely). I'm almost positive I could've kept going and would have had time to get down if the fog started moving in fast, but I flapped a bit and just decided to call it a day. And still not a cloud in the sky on the airfield. Queue of students about to go up. I felt like a right idiot. :oops:

So... back home. I live on the coast and thought I'd dust myself down and work in the sun in the garden this afternoon. Except it's too foggy. :lol:
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By editmonkey
#1859917
Thanks T6. Well, i guess it’s all about setting your internal datums isn’t it. I have no idea how fast fog moves and it’s the first time I’ve really seen it from the air. And also, judging distance from the air is new. So what I thought was about 5 miles is actually about 8 when I measured it at home. It was absolutely miles away! But yes, I wasn’t sure so played it very safe.
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1859921
editmonkey wrote:Well, i guess it’s all about setting your internal datums isn’t it. I have no idea how fast fog moves and it’s the first time I’ve really seen it from the air. And also, judging distance from the air is new. So what I thought was about 5 miles is actually about 8 when I measured it at home. It was absolutely miles away! But yes, I wasn’t sure so played it very safe.

It's exactly this. Far better to be overcautious and overestimate the speed the fog moves, than to get caught out in it.

We really won't enjoy all the :roll: :roll: :roll: if we read that you got caught out over a low cloud layer as the fog rolled in so quickly that you had to do an unplanned diversion to your nearby large regional airport as a solo student :D

You did exactly the right thing. Now that you have some additional information (=experience), you can use that knowledge to reduce the margin a little next time. A couple more circuits next time, and see how far it gets.

Sometimes though (when the temperature is close to the dewpoint), fog can develop very quickly indeed. It should never be underestimated, and if there's any about, keep a very close eye on it.

The same goes for rapid cumulus build-ups that can result in lines of heavy showers blocking your path. Or more to the point, your return path.

Don't be fearful of the weather, but do respect it, and do everything in your power to get to know it.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1859923
It reminds me of sitting on the pier at Sandown one day, watching the sea fog come in. At the rate it was coming in, I knew I had enough time to walk to the airfield and take off before it arrived if I waited for it to meet me at the pier. It did, I started walking, I got to the aeroplane, did a quick pre-flight and off I went. It all worked out well.
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1859930
Paul_Sengupta wrote:It reminds me of sitting on the pier at Sandown one day, watching the sea fog come in. At the rate it was coming in, I knew I had enough time to walk to the airfield and take off before it arrived if I waited for it to meet me at the pier. It did, I started walking, I got to the aeroplane, did a quick pre-flight and off I went. It all worked out well.

It was at Sandown that I experienced fog that formed very quickly.

I was actually at the airfield on a moderately hazy day with no cloud. I noticed the vis getting worse, and didn't much like the look of it, so I also did a quick preflight and off I went. By the time I got airborne the vis was really pretty rubbish. I only had to get back to Goodwood though, so poor vis wasn't too troubling.

At about 400' the ground disappeared quite suddenly. Not particularly wanting to stuff the nose down as it's not all that flat around there, I continued the climb.

In the climb, I settled on a plan involving a PAN call and radar vectors to the ILS at Southampton, but before I called them I popped out of the cloud at about 1500' into clear air with no cloud and perfect vis, after which everything was of course fine.

In retrospect I was quite pleased not to have abandoned the aeroplane and got the ferry back to the mainland, but it was an interesting learning point.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1859933
I had a similar thing at Bembridge, when along with a friend in another aeroplane. Visibility was deteriorating as as got back to the airfield and we launched into heavy haze rather than mist or fog. However we didn't see Portsmouth until about half way across the Solent.
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By editmonkey
#1859943
I've read so many horror stories about fog and getting caught out I think it's left an impression. And the overriding thought that always goes through my mind as I'm powering along the runway is that I will get back for the kids today. Really focusses the thinking.

Another wee annoyance today was the radio again. Is there a standard call for 'after you'?

I was doing my power checks at the holding point and a microlight taxied out behind me and parked pretty much between me and the runway to do his pre take-off stuff. Getting out would have involved going around the front of him, backtracking a short distance and then performing an extremely tight 180 to line up. It would have been a tight squeeze so after a bit of pontificating I radioed 'GXX - GXXXX please go ahead of me I'm a solo student so may be a while'. He looked a bit confused but thanked me and off he went.

Is there a better way to do this?
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1859949
editmonkey wrote:I radioed 'GXX - GXXXX please go ahead of me I'm a solo student so may be a while'. He looked a bit confused but thanked me and off he went.

Is there a better way to do this?

At an A/G field this is exactly what I'd do, although strictly talking directly to other aircraft isn't really CAP413 approved except (I'd need to check this) for relaying urgent messages.

At a field with AFIS or ATC I'd ask the ground station to pass on the message.
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By editmonkey
#1859952
Aye it's an A/G field, and we were looking at each other as I made the call so it was very clear. I'm going to reread my comms book, our radio is often unmanned and I keep finding myself in these tricky, unplanned radio situations and having to bluff my way out :lol:
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1859957
editmonkey wrote:Aye it's an A/G field, and we were looking at each other as I made the call so it was very clear. I'm going to reread my comms book, our radio is often unmanned and I keep finding myself in these tricky, unplanned radio situations and having to bluff my way out :lol:

Sometimes if you chuck CAP413 out of the window and use plain language, the tricky unplanned radio situations become a lot less tricky.

The reason they're not in the book is that they're unplanned. And hence tricky :D

In reality, there's only one rule on the radio:

"Don't make yourself sound like a dick".

If you get that bit right, most of the rest of it will sort itself out.
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