Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

By Fellsteruk
#1841485
Hi,

So im still doing PPL and want to move on to aero rating afterwards but ive been tempted to go an do a 30 min experience flight before i get my PPL...

Question is, whilst i apprciate the time cannot be counted towards my PPL or aero rating, can or should i still log it in my log book, i mean it's experience isnt it?

Or would that cause red flags or issues when applying for my PPL?

thoughts/advice...
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By Rob P
#1841488
You are PUT, just like any other lesson.

Learning to identify/handle/recover from unusual attitudes should be a compulsory part of the curriculum anyway.

Fellsteruk wrote:... whilst i appreciate the time cannot be counted towards my PPL or aero rating


It can. People have taken night training within their PPL course, that also counts as valid hours and also for the night rating

Rob P
Last edited by Rob P on Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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By T67M
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841528
Fellsteruk wrote:So I'm still doing PPL and want to move on to aero rating afterwards but I've been tempted to go an do a 30 min experience flight before i get my PPL...

Question is, whilst i appreciate the time cannot be counted towards my PPL or aero rating, can or should i still log it in my log book, i mean it's experience isnt it?

Or would that cause red flags or issues when applying for my PPL?


First of all, all the very best with the rest of your training - and if you enjoy aeros, fly aeros.

Second, always remember that your logbook is YOUR logbook - you can write anything you like in it, just so long as the required facts are all present and correct. The only "red flags" will be for time flying a Parker Pen - remember that what you write can be (and occasionally is) cross-checked against aircraft and airfield records. The odd minute or two of difference is normal - but claiming a flight that never took place will be the red flag you don't want.

Next, all the hours you do fly "count" as experience, and they all count toward the issue of ratings unless explicitly excluded - for example, the "10 hours post licence issue" for a LAPL-holder to carry a passenger still apply even if the pilot took considerably more than the minimum hours to complete the LAPL course. You can even write flights with a PPL-friend in your log book, just so long as you log your "operating capacity" as "SNY" (supernumerary) and the hours don't count toward the totals.

Finally, whilst for the PPL rating there are a number of minimum hours you need (minimum dual, minimum solo, minimum cross-country etc) for the rating, but there's nothing saying you can ONLY cover exactly the PPL syllabus during the dual time. Flying should be fun, so if your instructor is willing and the plane is suitable, the odd loop or roll just puts a smile on your face - and you learn much faster when you're smiling.
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By Fellsteruk
#1841544
Thanks all wise and helpful words I really do need to keep reminding myself “it’s my lock book” ;)

Was gonna do the aero experience with a different school in Barton as mine don’t have suitable aircraft. I mean I could try a loop in the Cherokee but I’m not sure I’d make it back :)
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By nickwilcock
#1841599
People have taken night training within their PPL course, that also counts as valid hours and also for the night rating


Not so these days. The only training acceptable within the PPL course is that specified under Part-FCL.

However, after much lobbying by IAOPA(Europe) it was included in NPA2020/014. In EASA-land, barring objections this should come into law in Q4/2022,

Weirdly they did not adopt the same proposals for the LAPL course, so we have submitted an objection for this non-inclusion.
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By Rob P
#1841627
nickwilcock wrote:
Not so these days. The only training acceptable within the PPL course is that specified under Part-FCL.


@nickwilcock can you clarify that for me please?

If a student completed their entire syllabus in 45 hours, but had spent one of those hours flying more than half an hour after sunset with their instructor, are you saying they would be unable to submit their licence application until they spent another hour flying in daylight?

Rob P
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By nickwilcock
#1841645
If a student completed their entire syllabus in 45 hours, but had spent one of those hours flying more than half an hour after sunset with their instructor, are you saying they would be unable to submit their licence application until they spent another hour flying in daylight?


Neither FCL.210 nor AMC1 FCL.210 include any provision for night flying. Therefore, under the 'logic' of EASA rulemakers, night flying during a PPL course may currently not be counted - so your theoretical student who had flown 44 hours by day and 1 by night would indeed need to complete a further hour by day before he/she could be signed off as ready to take the PPL Skill Test.
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By Rob P
#1841660
Lunacy.

(See what I did there?)

Rob P
By Fellsteruk
#1841692
It is mental, i did my night rating at about 40hours into ppl conscious that it wouldn’t count towards my 45 hours min which seemed daft given it’s all experience but given I was never gonna be ready in 45hours I wasn’t fussed either way.

Flying at night is however cool and given I hope to move onto CPL eventually I guessed was worth doing now than later on as I’m sure I’ll be going for local night flights on the 5th November and gives you a bit more time in the winter when coming back home.
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841708
@nickwilcock however it doesn't say that you have to do your PPL training during the day. So the question is whether you are doing night training or PPL training, as the argument is you can't be doing both at the same time.
For example, if an instructor did the IMC sections of the training at night (instead of foggles) then that is the IMC sections of the training - not night training, so it does count (but not towards a night rating).

To quote @Rob P - lunacy