Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841596
AndyR wrote:Early on in my training I was a little miffed that my instructor had cancelled my lesson as it looked fine as far as I was concerned. Sunny and warm, blue sky overhead.

They clearly decided to teach me a valuable lesson, so lesson was reinstated. 5k viz.

Lesson learned.

How did you get on?
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841613
Highland Park wrote:That was something that used to concern Gerry Honey. He was all for technological advances, but did worry that it would encourage pilots to fly in conditions that they might not otherwise have done and were pushing their abilities to the limit unnecessarily...


I'm not sure I understand this way of thinking. A moving map navigation system gives you the ability and confidence to fly in all sorts of situations where you may not otherwise do so, not least of which is flying anywhere near any controlled airspace. It allows you to find aerodromes such as Fenland or Bourne Park, it allows you to confidently fly up the Manchester LLR, and all sorts of other places which you might think twice about if you didn't have the GPS.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841615
Yesterday was distinctly hazy because of the High Pressure inversion layer and vis was very variable because although you could see the ground at a fair distance clarity was an issue and picking out distant features quite hard, but the ground was visible so staying the right way up was no problem. Navigation by visual waypoints would have been a stressful pain in the proverbial but it was quite possible to pick out landmarks for interest now and again.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841641
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
Highland Park wrote:That was something that used to concern Gerry Honey. He was all for technological advances, but did worry that it would encourage pilots to fly in conditions that they might not otherwise have done and were pushing their abilities to the limit unnecessarily...


I'm not sure I understand this way of thinking. A moving map navigation system gives you the ability and confidence to fly in all sorts of situations where you may not otherwise do so, not least of which is flying anywhere near any controlled airspace. It allows you to find aerodromes such as Fenland or Bourne Park, it allows you to confidently fly up the Manchester LLR, and all sorts of other places which you might think twice about if you didn't have the GPS.

Indeed.

And what happens if the GPS signal drops out or gets jammed right when you're threading a needle between two bits of CAS in rubbish vis?

A PAN call might be the only option if you don't have a plan B, and as we're constantly exhorted to take 2, that might not be an easy option visually if you'd been relying on the accuracy of the moving map before it died.

So far I've never lost the GPS signal yet. But in 3.5 years of SkyDemon, I've noticed over time how my map reading skills have deteriorated.

Until I started using SD, my map reading was pretty damn good. I hadn't done a PLOG or calculated a heading for about 25 years, with the sole exceptions of a trip to Macon and IMC written tests.

In fact, I still have my original set of track marker pens, all still working, purchased in 1992!

My flight planning consisted of checking NOTAMS, weather, fuel, and writing down the frequencies I'd need. And then I'd take off and point the aircraft in the right general direction, and read the map all the way. I could see the drift, even from quite high up. If I needed an estimate, it would be based on thumb joints.

Now however, although I still cross-check with the ground a lot, I wouldn't be as confident. I reckon I'd still be ok, just about, but I do genuinely fear for the current generation who have grown up with SkyDemon, and despite having to pass a test flying stopwatch and compass, never *really* learned to map read.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841651
Yesterday I used Skydemon and flew by the edge of the ATZ of 2 GA airports at around 3000ft. I knew they were there from the map and could see them through the haze in the right place. Skydemon makes map reading easier it doesn't stop map reading. Had the moving map frozen from some reason I would have known, track and position and followed DR until normal service was resumed. In IMC I'd have had a go at ground based aids and made a PAN call, IFR navigation without a GPS is now impossible.
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By David Wood
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841729
Morten wrote:
I wish more instructors would take students down to legal VFR limits to demonstrate what low visibility means to avoid bad surprises early on.



Yes, but....

The legal minimum for in-flight vis in VMC for Class G is 1500m. Frankly only an idiot would try to fly under VFR in such conditions without the back-up of an instrument rating to fall back on if it all goes pear-shaped. The old rules, whilst more restrictive, were much more sensible.

Certainly I'd agree that showing a student what poor vis looks like (3-5000m) is a useful part of their training and equally certainly a student has been poorly served if his/her entire training has been carried out in CAVOK. But I do worry that the current rules subliminally encourage low-hours non-instrument rated pilots to fly in conditions that, whilst they may be legal, are downright dangerous.
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By Miscellaneous
#1841743
David Wood wrote:Certainly I'd agree that showing a student what poor vis looks like (3-5000m) is a useful part of their training...

My instinct is it would also be beneficial to take them in to cloud for the purpose of encouraging them to avoid at 'all' costs. :D
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By Rob P
#1841766
Highland Park wrote:
Personally (and maybe I’m ultra cautious), if I can’t see the Tacolneston Mast on the ground from the airfield, I don’t bother to get the Colt out of the hangar


Nothing wrong with caution.

I was out of the house early today in an attempt to get some flying in before the glider chaps had got their toys out.

I failed. even as I started my first (only) circuit I could see the launch point caravan and the winch trundling onto the airfield.

So I went flying. I doubt if I could have seen the Tacolneston Mast from Tacolneston itself. My attempt to outclimb the dreary viz finished at 5,500ft when it became clear I had left the morning mist behind and was actually in cloud.

I wish I had left the aircraft in the hangar frankly. But hey... Put it down to experience.

Rob P
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By AndyR
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841814
TopCat wrote:
AndyR wrote:Early on in my training I was a little miffed that my instructor had cancelled my lesson as it looked fine as far as I was concerned. Sunny and warm, blue sky overhead.

They clearly decided to teach me a valuable lesson, so lesson was reinstated. 5k viz.

Lesson learned.

How did you get on?


I thought that may have been obvious :D

Flying around in milk as a low houred PPL student was no fun at all, especially when flying in to the sun. Picking out landmarks was very difficult until almost on top of them (this was pre GPS remember). An appreciation of the difference between looking directly up versus slant distance was most valuable.
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