Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

By Spiritussanctus
#1834938
Dear Friends,

I came here to ask your advice, hoping that you could shine a new light on the pickle that I’m in... my current situation:

- STEM BSc degree
- recently promoted to a well paying job
- 150h TT/ 100h PIC on SEP
- ATPL(A) theory completed last summer

I have enough savings at the moment to finish the cpl me ir part of the training, however I currently don’t see the point in finishing anytime soon due to the whole covid situation.

I have an oppertunity to start a Masters degree (2 yrs) and deepen the knowledge in my current field of work, this would be parttime at first (combined with work) but transition into full time around 2022 for the remainder of the program, effectively killing my source of income and forcing me to live off of my savings.

Thus the hard part is the following:

- I will be around 30 when everything (degree, cplmeir) is finished.
- My atpl theory will lapse somewhere along the course ~2,5y remaining.
- I will need to take atleast a 3mo university break to finish the cplmeir abroad as it is very expensive in my home country.
- I will need to keep everything valid afterwards (€€€) while on a student budget.
- If by any magic chance a flying job will appear, I will probably have to abandon my degree which I’ve invested x years in, without any return.

It feels as if I have to choose for one or another; a (uncertain) flying career or an academic career.
I am to heavily invested into flying (time and moneywise) to just abandon it, and flying around the field on a sunday every once in a while just doesn’t cut it for me either.

Combining studying and flying seems like a pickle, any advice on that, or any advice in general?

Thanks!
By A4 Pacific
#1834981
It sounds like a fork in the road?

Just imagine yourself 10 years down each fork, whilst anticipating that the world in general, and flying careers specifically, are probably in a state of flux. Likely remaining so for a good while to come.

I take it as read you’ve been bitten by the flying bug.

So, 10 years from now:

A) You’ve been lucky and have actually broken into the airline game. (if that’s your aim?) You’ve probably worked your way through a ‘feeder’ airline or two. (Hopefully avoiding the occupational hazard of airline failure/redundancy?) Have spent a good few years as a copilot learning the ‘craft’. You’ve resolved the dilemma of turbo-prop command or jet first officer. But perhaps you’ve found the job’s not quite what it once was. T&Cs aren’t what they used to be, and you’re working all hours god sends just to fulfil your peripatetic contract. Because you’re an employee flying for somebody else.

Or

B) You’re a highly qualified individual with a well paid job in a sector you really enjoy. With the money you earn you’re able to spend a bit on ‘fun’ flying. Maybe you’ve done an Instructor’s rating and instruct in your spare time? Perhaps you’ve done a bit of tailwheel flying? Aerobatics? Floatplane? Or you’ve dabbled with helicopters? Possibly you have an Instrument Rating and/or can afford to own your own aeroplane at a strip close to home? Maybe you hanker after taking a year or two sabbatical from your main job to do a bit of bush/doctor/Antarctic flying? Or maybe you’re a particularly likeable person who has made good friends with someone who owns a warbird?

In other words.

Nobody who avoids the financially ruinous sausage machine to the airlines is necessarily giving up their flying dreams? In fact, quite the opposite!! :shock:

I would say secure your CPL as cheaply as you can. Then concentrate on the academics for a while? You’re clearly very bright. If you have to re-do your ATPL theory, then so be it.

All in my very humble opinion.
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By Rob P
#1834987
@A4 Pacific

Bloody wonderful post. ^^^^^^

Rob P
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By NDB_hold
#1834990
Ah, but @A4 Pacific 's option B might be - suppose you find yourself in a succession of short term academic contracts, and you can never get a permanent post. Academic salaries aren’t what they used to be, and there's much more pressure on you to produce measurable results. Politics is interfering with your teaching, too, with relentless demands that you decolonise your curriculum and make the teaching more ‘accessible'; meanwhile, research funding has dried up and you are nothing more than a sausage factory for ungrateful teenagers.

The grass is always greener... Option B was going to be my career (long before I made the mistake of a trial lesson for my birthday and signed up for a PPL course later that year - exactly 20 years ago, give or take a month!)
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By WelshRichy
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1835047
Can’t really guide you as to what you should do as only you can make that decision. However, if you decide to obtain your CPL as cheaply as possible it would be really worthwhile in gaining your IR as well. To keep costs right down you don’t need to do the ME-IR, just the SE-IR but doing so will keep those ATPL theory credits as long as you don’t let your SE-IR lapse for more than seven years. When ready and as long as your ATPL credits are valid (based on your SE-IR) you can later upgrade to an ME-IR (MEP course followed by a 5 hour ME-IR conversion and an initial skills test).
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By Spiritussanctus
#1835627
Yes I was looking into FI aswell, as instructing is something I enjoy and have some experience with aswell (sports that is, not flying).

At this point I am inclined towards working a few more months to ramp up my savings and consequently obtain the me ir cpl fi ratings after which I would go back to the uni, full time.

The reason for doing the me is that it’s cheaper to do a cplmeir combined course at a place like Bartolini (they don’t offer cpl se ir), than it would be if I would do cpl se ir in my home country at a mediocre flightschool :(
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By editmonkey
#1836612
A4 Pacific wrote:It sounds like a fork in the road?

Just imagine yourself 10 years down each fork, whilst anticipating that the world in general, and flying careers specifically, are probably in a state of flux. Likely remaining so for a good while to come.

I take it as read you’ve been bitten by the flying bug.

So, 10 years from now:

A) You’ve been lucky and have actually broken into the airline game. (if that’s your aim?) You’ve probably worked your way through a ‘feeder’ airline or two. (Hopefully avoiding the occupational hazard of airline failure/redundancy?) Have spent a good few years as a copilot learning the ‘craft’. You’ve resolved the dilemma of turbo-prop command or jet first officer. But perhaps you’ve found the job’s not quite what it once was. T&Cs aren’t what they used to be, and you’re working all hours god sends just to fulfil your peripatetic contract. Because you’re an employee flying for somebody else.

Or

B) You’re a highly qualified individual with a well paid job in a sector you really enjoy. With the money you earn you’re able to spend a bit on ‘fun’ flying. Maybe you’ve done an Instructor’s rating and instruct in your spare time? Perhaps you’ve done a bit of tailwheel flying? Aerobatics? Floatplane? Or you’ve dabbled with helicopters? Possibly you have an Instrument Rating and/or can afford to own your own aeroplane at a strip close to home? Maybe you hanker after taking a year or two sabbatical from your main job to do a bit of bush/doctor/Antarctic flying? Or maybe you’re a particularly likeable person who has made good friends with someone who owns a warbird?

In other words.

Nobody who avoids the financially ruinous sausage machine to the airlines is necessarily giving up their flying dreams? In fact, quite the opposite!! :shock:

I would say secure your CPL as cheaply as you can. Then concentrate on the academics for a while? You’re clearly very bright. If you have to re-do your ATPL theory, then so be it.

All in my very humble opinion.


Great reply. My cousin has a fantastic life now. He completed his education while doing his CPL and ended up flying science missions over the arctic. He now flies bizjets and his insta feed regularly features pics of him surfing/swimming/eating gourmet in various glamourous locations around the world. He works his socks off, but never regrets not going the airline route! Lots of options to get your flying kicks paid or non-paid, but you'll never regret your education.

Good luck with it!
By lcolman
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1847326
First off, the COVID thing is temporary - do what I’m doing and make the most of your ability to fly cheaply now to follow the CB-IR route.

My route is as follows:
PPL - done
NIGHT RATING - done
Bought cheap plane - done (which we run as a group for hours builders)
IR(R) - done (allows hours building no matter the weather and allows me to practise IR procedures in my plane)

Next steps:
Complete ATPL exams
SE IR (A) - 10 hour conversion
MEP - 5 hours
ME IR (A) - 6 hour conversion
CPL

Now this gives you more options then doing a CPL ME IR, it is much much cheaper and allows me to practise in a Single.

Good luck on your decisions and flying!

Oh and if you want to come flying drop me a pm - based at EGSG!

Luke
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By Rob P
#1847376
lcolman wrote: - based at EGSG!



For the handful of people here who haven't memorised every ICAO code in the UK, that's Stapleford.

Rob P
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By Forfoxake
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1847453
Could you afford to buy a share in a permit aircraft and fly it regularly even when doing your Masters degree?

If so, and it's a decent small group, you could do a lot more than fly around the field on a Sunday- I flew to Switzerland (and back) from Scotland in an 80mph Permit aircraft while still in a small group.

Imho, unless you are determined to be a commercial pilot, a viable alternative in the long run is to have a job that allows you to fly for fun as much as possible!
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By David Wood
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1847494
lcolman wrote:First off, the COVID thing is temporary


Covid may be temporary; but I suspect that the pandemic's effects on aviation will be permanent; coming as it has in coincidence with sudden awareness of the long-brewed Climate Crisis. Call me a Cassandra, but I think that the era of cheap intercontinental fossil-fuelled recreational air travel is in its twilight now. As is the era of manned pilotage, either military or commercial. I've loved my flying and I intend to do many more years of it. And there will certainly be a place for [probably electrically-powered] recreational flying in the future. But were I some 40 years younger I would not be seriously considering a career in commercial aviation, or indeed military aviation.
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