Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

#1830863
Hi All,

I'm hoping for some advice on the best route to licensing post-Brexit.

I have about 40-50 hours (about 20-25 solo) / 250 launches gliding experience but haven't flown since about 2011, would have to find my logbook to confirm exact hours/launches/dates. I never got as far as doing a solo cross-country, although I've done some dual nav training and some land-out training in a motorglider.

As my gliding was pre- EASA FCL becoming mandatory I don't have an SPL/LAPL(S).

I was contemplating getting back into gliding this summer but I've decided that I'd be more interested in flying microlights or SEP.

I can see myself mainly wanting to fly 3-axis microlights due to cost, but I'd like to leave a route open to getting an ICAO compliant PPL(A) in the future should I wish to.

As in, learn to fly, buy a microlight share for everyday flying, then (some time down the line) occasionally rent an SEP for touring / flying with more than 1 pax.

So, what is my best option? As I understand it:

* I can't credit any of my gliding unless I get an LAPL(S)/SPL first? And if I did have/get an LAPL(S) or SPL I'd have to go via an SLMG endorsement, then convert to (A) and the best I could get would still be LAPL(A/M)? I guess this is a waste of time, and all my gliding experience will gain me is (hopefully) the ability to get through the syllabus a bit quicker due to already having some stick and rudder / airmanship / nav experience?

* If I do an NPPL(M) then I can convert to an NPPL(A) by differences training but none of the NPPL(M) training hours will count towards a UK PPL(A) or whatever they are going to call it now? So I could start on microlights, gain SEP later, but could never gain an IACO compliant PPL without putting in a bunch of extra time with an instructor to make up 45 hours total on SEP? And if my differences training isn't done at an ATO then I can't even count that?

* If I straight up do a PPL(A) then I can subsequently use it to just fly microlights? But will time on microlights count towards license revalidation or will I still have to do 12 hours every 2 years on type A to keep my class rating?

Are there any better options? Have I missed anything? Are any of my above assumptions incorrect?
#1830874
BGA bronze + cross country endorsement will get you an SPL. That would get you off some of the LAPL/PPL(A) exams and 10% of your solo glider time off PPL(A) training hours, so not a lot.

Adding the TMG (aka SLMG) endorsement to a SPL does get you a lot off the LAPL(A) & PPL(A) training hours but you have to do a fair few hours in a TMG after gaining the endorsement, 21 for the LAPL(A), 24 for the PPL(A). Worth doing if you want to get back into gliding & want to fly a TMG, probably not worth it if you only want to do power flying.

NPPL micro to NPPL SSEA is still a thing but currently you wont be allowed to fly the most common SEP aircraft, eg Pipers, Cessnas, anything with a CofA. You would also be confined to flying within UK airspace, for SEPs at least. However, there have been hints that this may change, that you may soon be able to fly CofA aircraft with an NPPL SSEA in the UK & that there may be a conversion route to LAPL(A) & ultimately an ICAO PPL(A). The CAA are planning some virtual GA summits soon:
https://www.caa.co.uk/News/CAA-launch-V ... on-Summit/
You might want to book into one of those & ask questions.

Going straight for a PPL(A) may be the simplest option & yes, the CAA do allow LAPL(A) & PPL(A) holders to fly microlights if they have had the appropriate differences training. You can also use 3 axis microlight hours as SEP P1 hours to maintain the validity of your SEP rating/LAPL recency.
#1830878
low&slow wrote:BGA bronze + cross country endorsement will get you an SPL. That would get you off some of the LAPL/PPL(A) exams and 10% of your solo glider time off PPL(A) training hours, so not a lot.


Thanks, but unfortunately I have neither!

I had the bronze written exams, qualifying duration flights (several over 30mins and on one flight I even managed 2h50min off the top of the winch), silver height gain, cross country endorsement nav/PFL training all in the bag but then had to quit flying due to a combination of finances and personal situation so never passed the bronze flying test. I imagine these have probably 'timed out' under some rule or another by now but I must admit I haven't checked.

low&slow wrote:NPPL micro to NPPL SSEA is still a thing but currently you wont be allowed to fly the most common SEP aircraft, eg Pipers, Cessnas, anything with a CofA. You would also be confined to flying within UK airspace, for SEPs at least. However, there have been hints that this may change, that you may soon be able to fly CofA aircraft with an NPPL SSEA in the UK & that there may be a conversion route to LAPL(A) & ultimately an ICAO PPL(A). The CAA are planning some virtual GA summits soon:
https://www.caa.co.uk/News/CAA-launch-V ... on-Summit/
You might want to book into one of those & ask questions.


OK I'll keep my eyes peeled. Certainly NPPL(M)->NPPL(SSEA)->PPL(A) would appeal in terms of being able to get into the air quickly and leave my options open for later.

Even NPPL with both M and SSEA and no option to PPL(A) would be 'OKish' if I could fly a 4-seat permit aircraft to Ireland/France occasionally (which I think are allowed by agreement) although as I understand it I'd have to keep both class ratings up (12 hrs / 2years each) if I did this?

low&slow wrote:Going straight for a PPL(A) may be the simplest option & yes, the CAA do allow LAPL(A) & PPL(A) holders to fly microlights if they have had the appropriate differences training. You can also use 3 axis microlight hours as SEP P1 hours to maintain the validity of your SEP rating/LAPL recency.


Straight to PPL(A) was pretty much what I was prepared for/expecting. Do you know if you have to do the microlight differences training AFTER the PPL(A) or can you do a few hours in microlights in the middle of the PPL?
#1830881
mickeyjaw wrote:Even NPPL with both M and SSEA and no option to PPL(A) would be 'OKish' if I could fly a 4-seat permit aircraft to Ireland/France occasionally (which I think are allowed by agreement) although as I understand it I'd have to keep both class ratings up (12 hrs / 2years each) if I did this?

Those agreements died when EASA licencing happened.

mickeyjaw wrote:Straight to PPL(A) was pretty much what I was prepared for/expecting. Do you know if you have to do the microlight differences training AFTER the PPL(A) or can you do a few hours in microlights in the middle of the PPL?

The law just says that a licence is only valid for use on a microlight after receiving differences training. Interpret that how you like.