Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By David Wood
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1821640
This may have been posted before but if not then it's worth watching if you either hold or aspire to an IRR or IR. Sobering stuff.

By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1821654
Generally icing is a nogo for me but it's surprising how and when you can get it. The critical issue is cloud types and it's wise to avoid cumulus. I have had moderate icing at 5000 ft over Scotland in late May when the cloud cover was more extensive than expected.......
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By VRB_20kt
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1821664
The Cirrus accident raised a question with me.

He was offered a shorter route to an airfield with 200' minimums or to fly an additional 15 miles - presumably accreting ice - to a field with 500' minimums. Which is the least-worst option?
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1821674
VRB_20kt wrote:The Cirrus accident raised a question with me.

He was offered a shorter route to an airfield with 200' minimums or to fly an additional 15 miles - presumably accreting ice - to a field with 500' minimums. Which is the least-worst option?


I'd go for the 500 ft the risk of a go around at the one saying 200 ft is too great and 15 miles at 140 KIAS isn't long.
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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1821677
I don’t believe the minimums were 200’ and 500’ respectively, but the cloud ceilings.

As @johnm says, the risk of having to go around when the ceiling is at minimums is much greater, even if the second field’s minimum was higher than 200’ with a 500’ cloud base there would appear to have been more likelihood of a successful landing.

A number of things left me a bit puzzled about that flight, not least being the sloppy RT in both directions. E.g. ATC asked for his degree of icing and OAT. His answer was vague and incomplete, and ATC just accepted that. Weird.
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By Charles Hunt
#1821704
Call Pan or Mayday early.

Pull the chute (is the pin internal or external?).

Not ATCs responsibility to know individual a/c performance, but if instead of the 'box turn' to get back on the ILS, if vectored straight to a (say) 1mile final at 800' AGL I assume a Cirrus could make the necessary turn to get onto the runway heading and hopefully a survivable landing.
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By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1821748
I've only had spacial disorientation a couple of times (aka "the leans") but it is a thoroughly unpleasant and highly stressful condition.
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By David Wood
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1821800
GrahamB wrote:E.g. ATC asked for his degree of icing and OAT. His answer was vague and incomplete, and ATC just accepted that. Weird.

On the the other hand, it's not ATC's position to cross-examine a pilot who was plainly already under pressure. He asked the question; got an answer; and left it at that. Fair enough, I say.

On one or two occasions I’ve had a 'controller' (usually not actually a controller in the proper sense, just someone with delusions of grandeur in that area) try the same with me or my students and I’ve been VERY sharp with them. Not their job to increase the pilot's workload and stress.
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By 2Donkeys
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1822199
David Wood wrote:it's not ATC's position to cross-examine a pilot who was plainly already under pressure. He asked the question; got an answer; and left it at that. Fair enough, I say.



In the US, the regulations are different and controllers are required to solicit information when a pilot indicates that he has had an ice encounter. FAR/AIM 7-1-20 refers (my emphasis):

FAR/AIM wrote:a. FAA air traffic facilities are required to solicit PIREPs when the following conditions are reported or forecast: ceilings at or below 5,000 feet; visibility at or below 5 miles (surface or aloft); thunderstorms and related phenomena; icing of light degree or greater; turbulence of moderate degree or greater; wind shear and reported or forecast volcanic ash clouds.

b. Pilots are urged to cooperate and promptly volunteer reports of these conditions and other atmospheric data such as: cloud bases, tops and layers; flight visibility; precipitation; visibility restrictions such as haze, smoke and dust; wind at altitude; and temperature aloft


The controller was simply doing his job. I suspect he didn't labour it because the pilot was clearly quite maxed out.