Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

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By JAFO
#1821068
TLRippon wrote:The difference in cost for an abinitio course is around £2000 not a small sum and I think most LAPL students don't find the 10 hours alone onerous, in fact most enjoy having the freedom to fly alone having spent many hours with an instructor next to them.


If the cost difference is £2000 IF you manage to do it in minimum time, what would be the cost on top of that of hiring an aircraft for 10 hours solo at your school/club?

Unless it is for a medical reason, I really don't see why someone would start off down the LAPL route today.

I say this as an LAPL holder who is fine with flying only in the UK.
Rob P, Iceman, T67M liked this
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By Rob P
#1821099
If they are not planning on stopping flying once the licence arrives, where is the cost saving?

They will still spend their budget on flying, this year, next year and right up until they get legislated out of aviation and someone prises the yoke from their unyielding grasp. It's is just there is a marker in a different place on the same, multi-thousand lifetime spend.

Rob P
JAFO, T6Harvard, skydriller and 3 others liked this
#1821374
No I don’t buy that argument.
Of course you aren’t going to stop flying after getting your licence but likewise you are not going to somehow feel you are still taking part in a training course of some kind while you are flying independently on your own licence for ten hours.
Like many pilots I didn’t take a passenger until 17 hours after my PPL arrived, that took just two weeks and since then I’d estimate 90% of my private flying is alone.
The point is that if you want to hold a pilot’s licence and fly independently in the lowest number of hours a LAPL is the way to do it. If you have a decent level of ability and the willingness to put in the work on the TK exams by studying in advance of starting the course, having regular lessons and good motor skills/spatial awareness, you can get through in 30 hours whatever age you are.
Kemble Pitts liked this
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By JAFO
#1821378
Lot of ifs there, @TLRippon.

What is the actual average time to licence issue for LAPL holders?
What is the actual average time to licence issue for PPL holders?

As the OP clearly thinks that flying passengers is important:

What is the actual average time to carrying passengers for LAPL holders?
What is the actual average time to carrying passengers for PPL holders?

If flying schools are not making these figures available to students, or at least making them aware that it's a question to ask, when pushing the LAPL then they are doing them a disservice.
By johnm
#1821379
People learn to fly for different reasons but I see no logical reason to start out with restrictions unless there's no alternative. The financial difference is unlikely to be huge in practical terms I would have thought.

I've seen LAPL and NPPL as options to continue flying to a limited degree if it becomes impossible to maintain a class 2 medical, I know many others see it differently.
JAFO, T67M liked this
#1821381
JAFO wrote:If flying schools are not making these figures available to students, or at least making them aware that it's a question to ask, when pushing the LAPL then they are doing them a disservice.

Which is kinda irrelevant right now if the atudent thinks that at any time in the future he might like to fly anywhere outside of the UK... because as things stand right now that's not possible with an LAPL. The reality is its not about "minimum hours" anyway, because as someone elae said "its all flying", its medical requirements and going abroad.

Regards SD..
JAFO liked this
By IWF
#1821399
As a newbie, but having thought about a PPL several times over the years, I was initially drawn to the LAPL as I saw it as a lower cost option, on the face of it 2/3 of the cost of the PPL. However given there’s an extra 10 hours needed post licence before you can carry passengers , arguably it’s a finer balance.

I’m still of two minds though, depending my long term objectives
#1821407
Why on earth would flying schools be keeping records of students activities post licence issue. One you’ve passed your skills test you are a free agent.
Unlike many who comment, I work in a school where there is an even split between PPL and LAPL students, all of the parameters of each licence is explained clearly to every student including restrictions before they sign up. We make more money from individual PPL students than LAPL so why would we not “Push” them all towards the PPL? The answer is quite simple. When you analyse why people want to get into learning to fly and they look at how they are going to manage their resources and time, where their future ambitions lie, then they can clearly choose which licence is best for them. What we do know is that offering a range of licence levels to your students means that a significantly larger proportion of enquiries become clients.
JAFO, Charles Hunt liked this
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By lobstaboy
#1821411
IWF wrote:...
I’m still of two minds though, depending my long term objectives


Ah! There's the rub.
Many, if not all folk in your position will change their objectives by the time they get their licence. They will learn so much about all the different types of flying and about themselves, that the future landscape will seem totally altered.
So it's a mistake to limit yourself from the outset.
#1821413
TLRippon wrote:.... One you’ve passed your skills test you are a free agent...

...What we do know is that offering a range of licence levels to your students means that a significantly larger proportion of enquiries become clients.


You mean once you have your licence you are a free agent (free to fly within the privileges of the licence). The skills test pass is not necessarily the last step before licence issue.

Certainly offering choices means more students are likely to sign up, but that doesn't mean that from an individual point of view they are making the right decision for them.

When I can I always delay decision making til the last possible moment - I know that I'll have more information then than I do now. Mostly we go through life not knowing what we don't know!
JAFO liked this
By IWF
#1821522
@TLRippon Don’t suppose you fly out of Elstree do you ?

Much of my decision is going to be looking ahead. I’m getting on, quite a bit actually so have no plans re a commercial licence , I’d just like the opportunity to learn enough to be a safe pilot and take family and friend out and about from time time. I doubt I’ll be flying in 5 years time, but that doesn’t put me off. £13k of cost vs £7k is certainly a factor. Had it not been for the extra 10 needed for carrying passengers I wouldn’t even be thinking about a full PPL.

Then again the experience of learning is half the fan, and if the real price difference is the cost of having an instructor in the plane with you, maybe I’d just extend a LAPL. I must admit though IFR sounds fun. It certainly is in a sim. :)

What might be nice is a LAPL on the way to a PPL with it being an opt out if you felt it not worth going the whole way.
#1821529
@IWF , you have pretty much described my starting point.
- Mature student.
- Like the idea of PPL because more options to add on later
and, tbh, I think more training while earning the ticket is a good thing!
- should pass Class 2 Med (be an unpleasant shock if I didn't... :shock: )

I am very unlikely to be PIC for a flight abroad, MrT6harvard does not like small aircraft no matter who is driving.
I have a couple of friends who would like UK day trips, which either licence would permit, albeit after the extra 10hrs under LAPL.

The biggest factor for me is the extra training PPL includes, which I really want - crucially the basic instrument flying, but also the longer XC for added confidence. Yes, it will cost a fair amt because I won't be able to do it in min hours but as you and others have said it's all flying, even if the bloke next to me gets a bit bossy from time to time :lol:

It helps that the theoretical knowledge is the same, as are many of the lessons. I haven't asked my school about taking the course for LAPL and carrying on to PPL if desired because I thought I'd aim high first off. Medical and personal acumen may change that :?

Good luck. Hope we students will all be writing about our lessons pretty soon :thumleft:
Rob P liked this
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By Rob P
#1821530
T6Harvard wrote:I am very unlikely to be PIC for a flight abroad,

I have a couple of friends who would like UK day trips


Just to point out that Calais takes me 40 minutes, Le Touquet 50 from Norfolk. Both are an easy day trip. So don't write off taking your friends to lunch in France as well as UK destinations. They are actually not particularly challenging flights, but the feeling of accomplishment the first time you do it is huge

Rob P
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