Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

By IWF
#1818395
Hi another newbie here.

I’ve decided on trying out some real life flying after many years of flight sims. I actually had 4or 5 real life flights 20 years ago, but life and other things have got in my way before now.

Being a slightly mature student with no current thoughts of flying outside of the UK, the LAPL seems the right choice for me. I accept all the arguments about the PPL but my thinking is that 40 hours of flying instead of the average of 55-60 hours taken with a PPL would save me some cash, allow me to take a couple of guests for a few flights and generally have some fun in a real plane. I take the view that if I then want to upgrade I can. Everything learnt in the LAPL us equally valid for a PPL

But in joining the forum and with no doubt tons of stupid question to ask I don’t want to be bashed each time I ask something just because the LAPL is the poor relation.

In another thread some time I’ll expand on why flight sim , particularly the new fs2020 when couple with a decent vr headset is a very immersive experience. But that’s for another day.

So is a poor relative welcome :?:
#1818402
You are welcome.

As you comment that you will would like to fly guests.......

Holders of a LAPL(A) shall carry passengers only if they have completed 10 hours of flight time as PIC on aeroplanes or TMG after the issuance of the licence.

So that increases the hours to 50 as a minimum.

Most do not achieve a licence in the minimum hours.

It is worth thinking about.
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By Rob P
#1818408
The thing is that most of us with some experience recognise that the LAPL isn't really a great deal and we do try and steer newbies away from it.

But if that's your choice then you are as welcome here as any ATPL student

IWF wrote: ... would save me some cash, allow me to take a couple of guests for a few flights and generally have some fun in a real plane.


At some point in the future:

"Hey, do you want to come flying with me? I have had fifteen fewer hours training than most new pilots, but it'll be fine"

And here on the Student Forum there are no silly questions

Rob P

The MSFS thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=115230
Last edited by Rob P on Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
By johnm
#1818416
I've said this before but I think it is always important, don't think of training as a means to end, think of it as part of an ongoing flying and learning experience.

I started learning to fly aged 52 and went for PPL it took me a while but I enjoyed the whole training experience and over the last 20 years I've logged some 1400 hours and gained IR and flown as far as Italy and the Baltic.

I think LAPL and NPPL which AIUI are now much the same in terms of privileges have a role to play for those who cannot get or don't need a class 2 medical but otherwise I'd definitely go for PPL and the difference in cost is pretty small in practical terms to get to the point where you can fly passengers.

Hopefully you'll feel welcome and free to raise questions whichever path you choose.
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#1818445
As someone who has a LAPL if you can pass a class 2 medical get a PPL. When I started I wanted to go for PPL but ultimately LAPL medical, for me, was far easier to get so I went down that route. I advised my instructor I wanted to be trained to the same level as a PPL so I did some radio nav for example that wasn’t part of the LAPL course.

Whichever you decide on enjoy the training :thumleft:
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By JAFO
#1818446
I have an LAPL so am happy to welcome someone else into the fold. However, I got the LAPL on the basis of the NPPL I already had.

If I was starting fresh now and was not restricted by the level of medical I could get, I would go for a PPL.

I would be very surprised if there is a significant saving between first flight as a student and first flight as PIC with a passenger between the two licences.

Few people get a licence in the minimum hours. You're ready for the test when you're ready for the test not when the hours clock reaches a certain point. Then, with the LAPL, there is the very odd requirement to fly 10 hours solo after the licence is issued.
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#1818454
Welcome @IWF .
I am a new, somewhat over excited, mature student. Started training at beginning of Sept but covid and a bit of weather means I only have 7 hours under my belt. I have found lots of very informative posts throughout the forum and plenty of help and support on the student threads.

Enjoy the sim but be aware that PPL / LAPL flying training is for visual flying conditions and pilots are supposed to be looking out faaar more than looking at instruments while training . As you probably know, there are lessons on instrument flying as part of the PPL so you get get safely out of cloud, should the need arise.
Not saying the sim won't help with some aspects though and I can see the appeal.

Please do post any questions. I won't be able to help much but I'll learn from the answers :lol:

PS, it's gonna be a while till we get back in the air :(
PPS, have you chosen your school yet?
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By IWF
#1818465
Thanks all

Perhaps I’ve the LAPL wrong then. I’d assumed the 32 hours listed as the requirement for the LAPL includes the 10 hours PIC necessary to carry passengers. I didn’t read as being essentially 32 plus 10. That being the case I now understand why people say it’s not worth difference. Bugger,, back to the drawing board

But thanks for the welcome all the same.

As a matter of interest what generally are the reasons few manage within the minimum hours ? Anything g specific ?
By IWF
#1818477
Having had another look around, is 32+ 10 the actual required flying time before you carry passengers ?

The CAA sites doesn’t seem to mention hours , but the flyga site lists what seems to be the full requirements. 32 hours are mentioned being 15 hours of instruction and 6 supervised solo, plus theory. That would suggest there’s another 11 hours of solo PIC being the 10 necessary before you can take a guest up.

It talks of common prices of around £5k which seen advertised in several places
#1818485
There are no stupid questions in the Student section. Actually, Im a believer of the ethos that "the ony stupid question is the one you didnt ask", Student or Experienced pilot.

I would echo the comments that if you can get a Class2 medical, then go for the full PPL. The reality is that the average time to get either licence is 50+hrs of training so going for a LAPL will probably not save you money and post Brexit the LAPL is not recognised abroad as yet - which is a whole new flying adventure for after you have a PPL!!

Regards, SD..
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By johnm
#1818487
I've just headed back through my log book and established that I had flown 70 hours dual and 10 hours solo when I took my flight test. All of this was alongside work and there were elements of 2 steps forward and 1 steps back due to gaps and I took a couple of opportunities to fly with an instructor while on holiday too.

Soon after I did the IMCR in the minimum 15 hours and much later an IR also in the minimum hours (50 in this case!!!!)

Just go for it and enjoy the training experience as I did.
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#1818488
IWF wrote:Having had another look around, is 32+ 10 the actual required flying time before you carry passengers ?

The CAA sites doesn’t seem to mention hours , but the flyga site lists what seems to be the full requirements. 32 hours are mentioned being 15 hours of instruction and 6 supervised solo, plus theory. That would suggest there’s another 11 hours of solo PIC being the 10 necessary before you can take a guest up.

It talks of common prices of around £5k which seen advertised in several places


Hello and welcome!

The 32 Hours include at least 15 Hours of Dual Instruction and 6 Hours of Solo flight. The remaining can be made up of Solo or Dual (more likely Dual).

Where to look (currently) for the UK Regulations is Easy Access Regulations Part-FCL at the link below:

http://www.caa.co.uk/CAP2023A02

Specifically FCL.105.A LAPL(A) – Privileges and conditions on Page 112:

Conditions
(1) Holders of a LAPL(A) shall carry passengers only if they have completed 10 hours of flight
time as PIC on aeroplanes or TMG after the issuance of the licence.


There are no silly questions here, I've been flying for 22 years and still have many silly questions! :lol:

Whatever path you choose enjoy! Flying is one of the most wonderful past times available...
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By Rob P
#1818499
IWF wrote:As a matter of interest what generally are the reasons few manage within the minimum hours ? Anything g specific ?


Because a student won't be signed off by their instructor until they are certain that the student can meet most of the challenges they are likely to face in the hours immediately after gaining their licence.

If you assume that in the student population there is a range of ability and aptitude, and that if you graphed that, you would almost certainly find it followed a Normal Distribution curve.

The legislative authorities have to set the minimum hours bar somewhere along that curve, and once that bar is set a proportion of people will not be able to fly safely given just those hours training.

The fact that so few achieve their licence in minimum hours is an indicator that the CAA have set the hours where only a small proportion of the student population can achieve safe flight.

No such thing as LAPL when I qualified, the minimum for PPL then was 40 hours. I can't recall when, and why, it was raised.

I didn't qualify in 40. From my first 50 hours post licence, and some of the mistakes I made then, I suspect another few hours polishing stuff wouldn't have been a bad idea. But then, like all students I was impatient, little realising at that time that the instructional hours on your way to the licence are some of the most enjoyable and rewarding you will ever fly.

Rob P
Last edited by Rob P on Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
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