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Re: LAPL, If you learn and pass your test in a 2 seater, can you not fly a 4 seater thereafter?

PostPosted:Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:59 am
by Charles Hunt
And just a word of caution, don't automatically put 4 people and full fuel in a '4 seater'. You may very well be overweight and have the CoG outside of permitted limits.

Pay great attention to weight and balance.

Re: LAPL, If you learn and pass your test in a 2 seater, can you not fly a 4 seater thereafter?

PostPosted:Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:41 am
by Flyin'Dutch'
@iantruckers

1. Once you have a LAPL you can fly 2 and 4 seaters but may need to get some familiarisation or differences training depending on what specific aeroplane you want to fly.

This requirement is no different from a PPL.

2. Your LAPL training will, until you get your LAPL licence, NOT count towards a PPL - unless you are only a few hours into the training and all training was done by a PPL instructor.

3. Until the gift of Brexit a LAPL was a great licence to for most people to fly around in a single engine piston aeroplane all around Europe, it required a few hours less than the PPL and what 95% of recreational pilots want to do 100% of the time can be done with a LAPL, however there is now a big question mark as to whether a deal will follow that will allow UK LAPL holders to fly in Europe.

No none FAA license holder can hop on a transatlantic flight and zoom through the US skies. For PPL holders there are easy licence conversion options not available to LAPL holders.

Sooooooooo,

a. if you have only a few hours done and no medical reason to go down the LAPL route, speak to your school and see if you can change your pathway.
b. if you have done a substantial amount of flying already and those training hours were not with a PPL instructor - finish off your LAPL and when you're ready convert to a PPL.

Enjoy.

PS don't think that you need a PPL to get an IR (R) rating to fly in IFR (**** weather) the training you can do anyway and no PPL uses it in reality, or to fly a twin, or fly at night. Flying at night can be done with a LAPL and appropriate training.

Re: LAPL, If you learn and pass your test in a 2 seater, can you not fly a 4 seater thereafter?

PostPosted:Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:48 am
by mick w
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
Rob P wrote:even without a word of French, it is far simpler to fly once you are across the English Channel than it is in the UK.


Nah it isn't. Unless you restrict yourself to the larger controller airports, it can be a bit nerve wracking as the airfields are usually French only. After a week's touring France once, and feeling that I didn't really know what I was doing, I felt a real sense of relief to be talking to London Information once again.


But that was before Dave's Cheat Sheet :wink: :thumright:

Re: LAPL, If you learn and pass your test in a 2 seater, can you not fly a 4 seater thereafter?

PostPosted:Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:50 am
by Rob P
Paul_Sengupta wrote: Unless you restrict yourself to the larger controller airports, it can be a bit nerve wracking as the airfields are usually French only.


Sorry Paul, that's bollox.

A small proportion of French fields with ATC are 'French Only'. Amiens is regrettably one of these.

The bulk of the other smaller fields are French only, self-announce which, as long as you make a manful attempt using Dave's cheat sheet, will greet your murdering of the language with a gallic shrug once you have landed. It can be a little disconcerting, but as nobody will actually be expecting any interaction with you no biggie. Make a mistake, like landing on the taxiway at Abbeville (Yes, been there), and you get another shrug.

No PPR, usually no landing fees, often someone from the club happy to put fuel for you on their card in exchange for folding euros.

And once in the air, joined-up, English speaking Flight Information who will clear you through almost anywhere and are surprised if you query that. "Of course you are cleared through the xxxxxxx zone"

Rob P

Re: LAPL, If you learn and pass your test in a 2 seater, can you not fly a 4 seater thereafter?

PostPosted:Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:07 pm
by Paul_Sengupta
Ok. I'm just speaking from personal (limited) experience. And that's the issue, my experience is limited. I'm sure if I did more of it I'd get more comfortable with it.

I made the chap at Quiberon miss his lunch (I think the first time anyone's made a Frenchman miss his lunch?) because he couldn't trust me with self announcing! :D

Re: LAPL, If you learn and pass your test in a 2 seater, can you not fly a 4 seater thereafter?

PostPosted:Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:31 pm
by skydriller
Rob P wrote:Make a mistake, like landing on the taxiway at Abbeville (Yes, been there), and you get another shrug.


Weeeellll, a shrug? more of a :roll: and a "zeez craizey Eengliish" remark...

Oh and any resident brit will continuously be told the "story" at every aeroclub lunch, just as I am repeatedly told the story of "zat mad Eengliish in zer Pee-ay tweny ate" who apparently overlooked the 900mx60m grass runway and attempted to put it down on the 5x80m tarmac aeromodellers strip, careered across the empty grass car-park, just missing a ditch, to come halt on our aircraft parking area in front of the hangars... :shock: :shock: *
Legend now has it he complained "I say, airstrip is a little bumpy, what...? :thumleft: **

Regards, SD..

*probably not too far off what actually happened...
**various versions available, all with really bad english accents, 100% embellishment.

Re: LAPL, If you learn and pass your test in a 2 seater, can you not fly a 4 seater thereafter?

PostPosted:Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:25 pm
by iantruckers
Wow! You really know how to put the spoke in, I`m going off flying outside UK Airspace. Thank you for the pause for thought moment, Ian

Re: LAPL, If you learn and pass your test in a 2 seater, can you not fly a 4 seater thereafter?

PostPosted:Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:40 pm
by Rob P
Don't let the thought of momentary embarrassment dissuade you from the best thing (after aeros) about having the ability to hop across the Channel in fifteen minutes.

We still grin over our pints recalling the taxiway incident at Abbeville. It's perfectly possible to make similar errors in the UK.

Rob P

Re: LAPL, If you learn and pass your test in a 2 seater, can you not fly a 4 seater thereafter?

PostPosted:Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:57 pm
by skydriller
Ian,

Please dont be put off. France is probably the most relaxed GA friendly country in Europe. It is almost a right of passage to cross the channel from the UK to Le2K, even if you dont leave the airfield when you get there!!

This is why many of us have suggested not to exclude the full PPL with the current Brexit situation, if you can get a Class 2 medical.

Regards, SD..

Re: LAPL, If you learn and pass your test in a 2 seater, can you not fly a 4 seater thereafter?

PostPosted:Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:45 pm
by Highland Park
skydriller wrote:Ian,

Please dont be put off. France is probably the most relaxed GA friendly country in Europe. It is almost a right of passage to cross the channel from the UK to Le2K, even if you dont leave the airfield when you get there!!

This is why many of us have suggested not to exclude the full PPL with the current Brexit situation, if you can get a Class 2 medical.

Regards, SD..

Unless of course you have a full PPL and renew your LAPL medical in December 2020, making the schoolboy error of not realising that post 31 December, it is no longer an acceptable medical with which to fly outside the UK. Ask me how I know... :roll:

Ian

Re: LAPL, If you learn and pass your test in a 2 seater, can you not fly a 4 seater thereafter?

PostPosted:Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:00 pm
by iantruckers
Wow! I didn't know that the LAPL Medical is unacceptable in Europe. I should be OK for the Class 2 Medical, as you can probably tell from my Login Name, I was a Class 1 Artic Driver and had to go through the Class2 Medical to keep my license. Ian

Re: LAPL, If you learn and pass your test in a 2 seater, can you not fly a 4 seater thereafter?

PostPosted:Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:44 pm
by Paul_Sengupta
skydriller wrote:Please dont be put off. France is probably the most relaxed GA friendly country in Europe. It is almost a right of passage to cross the channel from the UK to Le2K, even if you dont leave the airfield when you get there!!


Yes, quite, don't let my comments put you off. If you fly into towered or FISO'd airfields where they speak English, it's easy. It's when you go off-piste, so to speak, that you may get a little confused. My comment was just about it being easier than here. It depends on your starting point. I've had a lot more experience flying in the UK (and in the US for that matter) than in France.

Re: LAPL, If you learn and pass your test in a 2 seater, can you not fly a 4 seater thereafter?

PostPosted:Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:58 pm
by Iceman
The thing to do @iantruckers when you get your PPL licence is to join in on foreign fly-outs and you will see how easy and fun it actually is.

Iceman 8)

Re: LAPL, If you learn and pass your test in a 2 seater, can you not fly a 4 seater thereafter?

PostPosted:Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:31 am
by akg1486
I've been organizing club trips to Europe (I'm Swedish) every summer since 2005. In 2020 we had to stay in Sweden, but we have visited a lot of countries: Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Denmark, Germany, Czechia, The Netherlands, Belgium, France, Austria and the Channel Islands. We've planned for England/Wales, but the weather has never allowed it. Most years there's been at least someone venturing abroad for the first time. It's really easy (if well prepared) and the trip is the highlight of my year. ATS, airfield staff and other GA pilots you meet are as a rule wonderful people.

Browse the Trip Report forum: there are many inspirational threads. Good luck with your training!

Re: LAPL, If you learn and pass your test in a 2 seater, can you not fly a 4 seater thereafter?

PostPosted:Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:45 pm
by Miscellaneous
akg1486 wrote:(I'm Swedish)

Really? :? Given your English I had you down as a Brit living in Sweden. :thumright: I guess the typed word doesn't tend to have an accent though. :wink: