Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

By Fellsteruk
#1804329
Hi all,

Firstly I’m not associated with javelin at all but I’m currently doing their online RT training which covers everything in comms to get you ready for the written comms exam and the RT exam, all done over a five week period 2.5 hours, one night each week.

Kevin who runs them, a pilot, instructor and Controller at Manchester is a gent and fountain of knowledge and whilst I’ve already passed my written exam I’ve found the delivery and his content on the topic to be really good so much so that I’m picking up stuff I missed when studying myself for the exam or getting a better understanding.

If your worried about the RT exam or just want some training to get you exam ready then I cannot stress enough how much you should check them out really good service and value for money!!

http://javelin.aero/
e-mail: info@javelin.aero
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1804491
Not sure if you mean 12.5 total which seems an awful lot unless someone has not been near an aircraft yet or 2.5 total which seems not enough! How much?
By Fellsteruk
#1804635
It’s 2.5 hours one night/week for five weeks so 12.5 total. It covers the entire comms subject and the RT exam.

It’s normally a two day event in person but covid has it online. Doesn’t seem excessive so far as every session covers knowledge checks and come to think of it a break in the middle of each session so likely closer to 10 hours in fairness And aimed at people who are just starting ppl. I just left it very late to do it.
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By Andrew Sinclair
#1821137
I run on line FRTOL courses which last for 2.0hrs sessions over 4 weeks and sometimes this runs over to a 5th session if there are a lot of question. This 5th session lasts an hour so max 9hrs.

This seems to work well.

PS - not a plug, just another data point for the discussion.
By Fellsteruk
#1821542
Maybe it is, I’ve only one point of reference which is the course I did. Personally I didn’t find it rushed or dragging was enough time to cover the content, discuss and ask questions from all the attendees.

For me and my learning style rhythm it worked a treat and passed the exam which is the main thing :)
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By Fellsteruk
#1821544
Agreed, I’ll be honest without the course I’d have never passed, of all the exams and topics RT was really though for me which I struggled to rationalize because the written comms exam I did in less than 10mins and passed 100%

I was like “I know this” why on earth can I not speak it on the radio, the extra training got me over the line :)
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By Andrew Sinclair
#1821579
Over the years I have found that it is easier for students to assimilate fairly simple knowledge required to pass the Communications theory paper (although quite a bit of it) than it is to master the RTF procedures required for the practical test or indeed operational flying.

I suspect this is because Communications theory is about acquiring knowledge whereas RTF is acquiring a skill which takes practice to embed. I seem to spend time most evenings on practising RTF calls in one form or another with either students or qualified pilots.

The same applies to the instrument flying pilots I teach, some need to spend significant time on their RTF although there is not a huge difference in the procedures used they just need to be embedded so that they don’t absorb significant mental capacity to enable the main tasks of controlling the aircraft, monitoring the flight progress, fuel management, judging drift et etc etc. The more embedded RTF is now the easier it will be later if/when the pilot undertakes more advanced training.

Well done for passing Communication and RTF 8)
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By koolflyer
#1832356
It's been really interesting reading through the various posts here, I suppose it just depends on the individuals learning speed. I have been running an FRTOL course three times a year since 1986 with virtually no break. I started the course in Cambridge and now run the course in the East Midlands, plus I used to be a CAA FRTOL Examiner when I had the time.

As I have mentioned I find the course duration can vary, however typically 2 hours a week for about 6 weeks and a bit seems to work well, and the student is confident to take and pass the exam.

However, since October I have run 2 FRTOL courses using Zoom online and have worked really well, better than expected. The advantage being, that it costs less to run ie no college room hire, no travelling involved, ease of staying at home and greater flexibility as I only take 4 students at a time, which in turn I can give more of my attention and if longer is required then that's not a problem, as this is not a commercial operation, just me helping my fellow GA friends.

I prefer to take on students who are coming up to the navigation stage of their flying training, as the they will only appreciate full RT procedures at this point onwards. My goal here is to get their proficiency and confidence up to a level where they should pass the practical exam. In theory, I could take them flying and they do the RT and I'd be satisfied that they weren't going to embarrass me, plus I've recently retired as an ATCO at EGNX so I (used to) and my ATC colleagues have to listen to them....ha!

I'm more than happy to lend a hand, so if anyone wants some more information email me on: pete@koolflyer.co.uk

Fly safe
Pete
Last edited by koolflyer on Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:32 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1832428
I always have a mix (because that is how it works out), students early, students late, always qualified ppls (uk trained and foreign trained) but for the first time last time, a regular passenger! All seem to get what they want in only 4 zoom hours and the ones who need tests pass them. (I bet they know more about svfr than most qualified pilots too.) Next course coming up mornings of 20th/21st.
I am very much for students doing radio training very early, brains get overloaded with new major tasks (circuits, nav), and it can only extend the time learning those new skills (and hence the total hours as a student) if also trying to learn the associated radio at the same time).
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1832440
As one of the newbies on Irv's course last year what helped me the most was having course notes sent out to students the day before so I could have a thorough read through. It also meant I could refer to them between sessions and hereafter. As I've flown so little since then I'll probably book again to sharpen up :)
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By Madisondooley
#1839571
Having just finished a RadioTelephony course with Peter Stephens I cannot recommend them enough. The radio was an area I felt less confident in but doing a course and having someone extremely experienced to practice with helped me so much. I now feel much more confident and gained so much knowledge.

In the course I did with Peter he runs through the radio for different routes which progressively get a little harder each time. It is so valuable to get feedback each week from a previous ATCO and you notice little things you wouldn’t otherwise have realised if you were just practicing at home. Peter has a range of routes and Mp3s to listen to at home which help with your practice and the class sizes are small which means you get individual feedback.

If you are thinking of taking an RT course I would definitely recommend taking one before your radio exam. I would definitely recommend Peter Stephens as his courses are professional, friendly and so well organised. He puts so much work into his courses and really goes the extra mile.

His email is pete <at> koolflyer <dot> co <dot> uk if you are considering a course.