Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By JAFO
#1859877
@T6Harvard - I promise you, it often seems like the biggest struggle and the most confusing mess just before the breakthrough. You've had glimpses of what that will look like already. I'm sure your instructor is great but his demands would push me to my limits and I've been practising a lot longer than you.
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1859879
@tr7v8 , one of my best lessons , which I look back on fondly, was after a lay off..... stuff sort of bedded in quietly. Have you got any time away from it?

Ha! Obviously what I need, too . Physician heal thyself, and all that :D
By tcc1000
#1859885
I thought I had finally cracked landings a couple of weeks ago, but this week I now realise that is not the case.... and I'm 15 hours after passing my skills test.

On another note, taking off on a slight uphill slope 3-up in a Warrior in current temperatures was interesting - a lot more runway needed!
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1859891
tcc1000 wrote:I thought I had finally cracked landings a couple of weeks ago, but this week I now realise that is not the case.... and I'm 15 hours after passing my skills test.


There's a lot of "it just clicked" comments on here for landing. Well, it never clicked for me, just a general steady improvement over the course and then over the years since.
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By lobstaboy
#1859895
T6Harvard wrote:Kind and encouraging words, which I do appreciate, but the key is there, @Highland Park .... my instructor had no positives to offer this week.

I'm going to hold onto my plan for later this week and do some other aviation, then take it from there.


I always hold back from saying, "try another instructor" but if yours really, really had nothing positive to say then they are no longer helping you to improve but are sitting next to you watching you struggle without any idea what else to suggest.
Is your instructor from a military background? I ask because they are bloody good instructors but haven't been used to helping students who are having difficulty (they just get "chopped") - or maybe they are embarrassed at their own failing (and failing to help a customer who is paying shed loads for a service that they are not getting is indeed failing). Learning for fun is different to military or commercial (more challenging in terms of people skills for the instructor).
Right, how can I help? Not sure, but here are my two pennorths
- ask for a lesson or two away from the circuit where you just get to enjoy the flying. It's perfectly ok to go off-piste from the syllabus. Your instructor should have suggested this already.
- try a temporary change of instructor. Sometimes this will jolt you into a different level of awareness. Your instructor should have suggested this already too.
- go off and have fun doing something else. Aviation related if you like, but doesn't have to be. You'll come back re-energised. Remember this is meant to be fun!
- try a permanent change of instructor and/or school and aircraft. You might look at Microlights as the culture is a bit "different" (but there are still some duff instructors I'm afraid).
- go and read something by Martha Beck - she's great on motivation. You can do this :)
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By JAFO
#1859900
tcc1000 wrote:I thought I had finally cracked landings a couple of weeks ago, but this week I now realise that is not the case.... and I'm 15 hours after passing my skills test.


I thought I had finally cracked landings a couple of weeks ago, but this week I now realise that is not the case.... and I'm 150 hours after passing my skills test. :thumleft:
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By lobstaboy
#1859903
JAFO wrote:
tcc1000 wrote:I thought I had finally cracked landings a couple of weeks ago, but this week I now realise that is not the case.... and I'm 15 hours after passing my skills test.


I thought I had finally cracked landings a couple of weeks ago, but this week I now realise that is not the case.... and I'm 150 hours after passing my skills test. :thumleft:


Weeeell...
My guess is that if we are honest none of us ever feels we have completely mastered landings.
I like John Farley's description of a landing. He called it 'presenting the aeroplane to the earth.'. It kinda has that hopeful supplication element to it that feels very familiar to me whenever I do it.
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1859910
Time for positivity from me! I attended the Gasco Avoiding Infringements course last evening, got all questions except one (didn't know 50.0 was 50,000 amsl). Very well presented, well worth it.
Last edited by T6Harvard on Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1859925
lobstaboy wrote:My guess is that if we are honest none of us ever feels we have completely mastered landings.

I think there are two problems.

One is that we equate mastery with perfection.

Take any elite athlete, top musician, unlimited aerobatic pilot, in fact anyone that us mere mortals would regard almost as a member of another species, and I'd bet actual money that they don't.

The other (judging by the enormous number of poor landings that I see nearly every time I'm ever watching the flying at any airfield) is that a large proportion of pilots put up with 'just barely good enough', make excuses, and have no desire to improve.

As I've said before, this "any landing you walk away from is a good one" is bollox.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1859929
TopCat wrote:As I've said before, this "any landing you walk away from is a good one" is bollox.


However being able to use the aeroplane again is always good.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1859932
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
TopCat wrote:As I've said before, this "any landing you walk away from is a good one" is bollox.

However being able to use the aeroplane again is always good.

Yes, but it shouldn't be by accident that you can.
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By editmonkey
#1859939
Not to keep repeating what others have said, but I'm a firm believer in the old saying that there are no bad students. That's NOT to say your instructor is bad, maybe just not right to get you over this wee hurdle (and it is *just* a wee hurdle). I've been through three instructors who are reputable and excellent aviators, but my current FI has been a game changer, almost entirely because of his positivity, his encouragement, his judgement about when to add to the load or when to just consolidate, he pushes me and builds my confidence, and also the rapport we've developed in the air allows us (me) to diffuse tension and nerves rapidly. I never find myself trying to impress and get approval anymore, just to fly safely. And that last one is probably the most important.

As a low hours student it's hard to comment on what others have said about the landings. Perfection is the route to madness, mastery will take many, many hours, so that leaves safe (with mastery being the long journey we're at the start of). From my experience so far, my FI is FAR more concerned about safety than perfection. Missed the centre line twice today, but corrected enough. Speed was too high 3 times, but corrected. Still landed too fast but it was safe. 4 approaches that were far too high, sorted it. i.e. 4 very squirrely landings that were on the verge of going around.

None of this stopped him sending me solo, or for giving praise where praise was due. In fact him sending me up today despite my internal reservations was a huge boost, and my solo circuit was a good one thanks to his push. A potentially bad learning day ended up being an average hour on the logbook consolidating, if not frustrating for weather reasons. A quick verbal debrief, none of this 'ticking off' nonsense (which is a terrible, archaic teaching tactic), and hopefully the next one is better.

I think you should give yourself a break, mentally check in as to how far you've actually come and make an assessment about how you feel when you're being taught. If the instructor doesn't build your confidence, that's telling.

Keep going, reading your posts back it sounds like you're doing much better than you're giving yourself credit for.
Last edited by editmonkey on Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By lobstaboy
#1859940
TopCat wrote:
lobstaboy wrote:My guess is that if we are honest none of us ever feels we have completely mastered landings.

I think there are two problems.

One is that we equate mastery with perfection.

Take any elite athlete, top musician, unlimited aerobatic pilot, in fact anyone that us mere mortals would regard almost as a member of another species, and I'd bet actual money that they don't.

The other (judging by the enormous number of poor landings that I see nearly every time I'm ever watching the flying at any airfield) is that a large proportion of pilots put up with 'just barely good enough', make excuses, and have no desire to improve.

As I've said before, this "any landing you walk away from is a good one" is bollox.


Oh yes, absolutely. We should always be striving to improve, knowing that we can do better even though we will never be perfect.

Poor landings? There are some very popular YT channels that show really poor landings without comment, as if they are completely normal. All the time. Bounced landings, nosewheel first landings. Ridiculously shallow approaches into short strips. Touchdown beyond the midpoint of the runway.
No names, no pack drill. But I do think folk who post videos should have some sort of responsibility. (sorry - hobby horse of mine)
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1859945
lobstaboy wrote:Poor landings? There are some very popular YT channels that show really poor landings without comment, as if they are completely normal. All the time. Bounced landings, nosewheel first landings. Ridiculously shallow approaches into short strips. Touchdown beyond the midpoint of the runway.

But this is the point - they are normal. Completely normal.

I can only surmise that when the schools work out the relative costs of the very occasional actual accident, measured against insisting across the board that the instructors have the right skills, use them, teach them, and insist that students use them as well (because obviously with at least one of these they don't), they decide that it's not worth the hassle.
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