Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

  • 1
  • 51
  • 52
  • 53
  • 54
  • 55
  • 143
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1868431
T6Harvard wrote:Yes, @TopCat , I read criticism about announcing 'Downwind for T&G' for that same reason; it presupposes and sets the action in stone.

Well I'm not sure I'd go along with that.

"Downwind touch and go" tells me that in all probability, I can afford to space myself closer to you on base and final than if you're "Downwind to land", as you'll be off and up again quickly and not occupying the runway for as long as if you're landing.

Most of the time, knowing someone's intentions is helpful.

It's still entirely my choice what to do with that information. If you then call "Final to land", or land rather than T&G without changing the call, or even fail to call final at all...

... then if I'm too close and have to go around, that's just tough on me. It's your runway.

Nothing is set in stone regardless of your radio call.
skydriller liked this
User avatar
By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1868441
Ahhh, sorry, I meant that there is a school of thought that the pilot saying it may have mentally set up their own action (eg, I am going to land ) which is a dangerous thing for exactly the reason you said - one has to be dynamic and act according to the circs right until chocks in.

Our Instructors use it to inform others while emphasis remains on 'if in doubt go around'.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1868477
T6Harvard wrote:Ahhh, sorry, I meant that there is a school of thought that the pilot saying it may have mentally set up their own action (eg, I am going to land ) which is a dangerous thing for exactly the reason you said - one has to be dynamic and act according to the circs right until chocks in.

Ah my bad, I never even thought you might have meant that.

I think in reality that's an unnecessary worry. Anyone that is such a complete spanner that they think they're committed to what they said downwind, or even final... well, think of it as evolution in action.

Just because someone is a student pilot, doesn't mean they're an idiot, and shouldn't be either treated like one or excused for being one.

Our Instructors use it to inform others while emphasis remains on 'if in doubt go around'.

Yes that's exactly the point. Wholeheartedly agree.
T6Harvard liked this
User avatar
By tr7v8
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1868933
Well currently in Jersey for holiday. Just happened to pop into Jersey airport & its flying school yesterday and now have an hour booked in a PA28 with one of their instructors on Tuesday at 10! Wife thinks it is conspiracy, of course not. Don't have headset or logbook with me at present, so not sure how their instructor will deal with me! All Jersey is class D air space so will be very different to Rochester! Will be interesting to see if I can land a PA28 at Jersey with miles of shiny tarmac.......
Watch this space.
T6Harvard, jcal, t1m80 liked this
User avatar
By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1868942
Oh nice! @tr7v8 , enjoy :thumleft:

Nearest school to my hols this week is 75 miles away. That's too far even for me!
*whispers* although I did look into it and they do a half day mountain flying to a beach landing and I soooooo want to do that :mrgreen:

Am revising instead :roll:
tr7v8 liked this
User avatar
By cotterpot
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1868998
I took a flight in Jersey with instructor after getting PPL.
You have to fly around it as they don't like, or didn't, overflight of the island. My wife sat in the back with the liferaft!
At one pint you could be below the level of the cliffs with aircraft taking off over the top of you.
On return I was asked to 'expidite' my downwind leg. Asked the instructor and he said just aim for the threshold which put me at 90 deg to runway. Still as you say plenty of tarmac, quick turn on to final then down and brake for first turnoff, to clear for inbound scheduled flight.
It was an interesting flight. Hope you enjoy yours.
T6Harvard, tr7v8 liked this
By cockney steve
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869010
anyone who watched the yewchoob videos (or was alert enough to watch the "live" ) from the LAA rally, would gave seen the bountiful Ian with a fistful of LANYARDS , distributing his largess to the thrilling mongs.
In the absence of a monthly mailshot, a S.A.E wiith a donation to the Seagar beer-fund, may reduce his grip on the remains of said envelope-full.


i trust my lanyard and cheque are on their way :lol:
tr7v8, T6Harvard liked this
User avatar
By tr7v8
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869298
And yet another entry for my logbook for yesterday, this one reads Jersey Airport & a PA28. Was very warm yesterday, around 25 Deg C at 10:00. Wind was slightly cross wind & around 15kts. So yet 7 t/o & 8 landings today.
Jersey a bit of overload after the 810m grass strip at Rochester. Acres of tarmac, lots of big airplanes flying in & out & proper RT! Met the instructor, explained where I was in the scheme of things (didn't have log book or headset with me), so he said we'd do some more circuits. Jersey circuits are huge compared to RCS ones because of noise abatement. I get nagged for flying too far out at RCS, this was the opposite, I was flying to close to land and not far enough over the sea.
PA28 felt a bit weird, controls a bit different from the C172, flap lever that was a handbrake lever stolen from a car & carb heat to worry about. The 172 I fly is injected so no carb heat. Also only one door, not having to duck to avoid banging my noggin on the wing or strut was weird, Despite the temp the PA28 needed a lot of prime to get going, but it cranked into life eventually. You seem to taxi miles at Jersey with proper taxi ways & holding points. Take off was uneventful, Vy speeds pretty similar to the 172. Circuit height at Jersey is 1300ft. Crystal clear vis, with a brilliant view of Jersey & our hotel, plus across to Alderney & Guernsey. Did a couple of landings with just two stages of flap which went reasonably well. The next with full flap, got too slow & flared too early. The PA28 has very little trim change with two stages of flap, but a big change with 3 stages & also feels like it has virtually stopped. I didn't use the trimmer in the whole flight, whereas the 172 it gets used a lot! Climb out & most of final speed control seemed OK, but final flare was variable a couple of good ones & 2 poor ones. So no different to RCS then!
So worthwhile, another type for my logbook & another 1:10 for my logbook.
So now 41 lessons & 40 hours 30mins in.
Had a lesson booked at RCS for Friday, but Condor moved our ferry back from Thursday 9th at 09:25 to 07:25 :shock: So phoned travel agent & pushed it out for another day so don't get back to Kent until Friday PM. Have two lessons booked for Saturday though with two hours between them.
PS meant to be an airshow here on Thursday. Saw a Mustang fly into Jersey Aero club yesterday & the Red Arrows flew in over St. Aubin harbour late PM. Massive thunderstorm in the early hours of the morning here, so airshow practice may have to wait.
By jcal
#1869341
tr7v8 wrote:flap lever that was a handbrake lever stolen from a car

:lol:

Very cool experience @tr7v8! I'm really looking forward getting out of my backyard at North Weald, but there'll be time for that yet.

If you were to choose for the rest of your training, would you fly the PA28 or the C172?
Milty, tr7v8 liked this
User avatar
By Milty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869344
I saw an interesting post on a facebook page recently. A student pilot struggling with landings in a C152 had a trial lesson in a PA28 and found it much easier to land. Had been struggling to go solo for several tens of hours but 6 hours after in a PA28 and they were up on their own.

I have no personal experience of this. A long topic of conversation followed with pro's and cons of both but to briefly summarise...

1. Low wing potentially a bit more 'predictable' with ground effect when landing, supposedly making it easier.
2. Being able to see one wheel out of the window of the C152 should make it easier to hold-off and land (although why you're looking out the window when you should be looking out the front I'm not sure)
3. Some people like high wing, some people like low wing.
4. The general consensus is to go with what works for you, but don't fixate on it. A 'decent' pilot should be able to switch between the two without too much bother (potentially controversial statement and no offence intended if it does offend).

I think I will stick with the C152 for now as only 5 hours in but will bear this in mind.
tr7v8 liked this
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869347
Milty wrote:I saw an interesting post on a facebook page recently. A student pilot struggling with landings in a C152 had a trial lesson in a PA28 and found it much easier to land. Had been struggling to go solo for several tens of hours but 6 hours after in a PA28 and they were up on their own.

With the same instructor, or a different one?

1. Low wing potentially a bit more 'predictable' with ground effect when landing, supposedly making it easier.

I've seen this sort of thing asserted dozens of times over the years as an attempt to explain poor landings, and I don't believe a word of it. I've also seen assertions that Cessnas 'float' more than PA28s, and I don't believe any of that either.

Most of my hours are in a low wing aircraft but I did about 35 hours in C172s only three years after I got my PPL and it made no difference at all to the basic technique.

I studied the book speeds, flew them, held off with the stall warner buzzing, and it landed after a short hold-off, just as expected.

I can imagine various reasons that individual struggled in the C152, and was then supposedly ok in a PA28, some of which could be related to aircraft differences, but none related to ground effect.
lobstaboy, Milty liked this
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869348
Milty wrote:A 'decent' pilot should be able to switch between the two without too much bother (potentially controversial statement and no offence intended if it does offend).

I agree. And if anyone is offended, they should go and work on improving their landings rather than wasting time getting offended :wink:

I think I will stick with the C152 for now as only 5 hours in but will bear this in mind.

Good call. :thumright:
jcal, Milty liked this
User avatar
By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869353
What an interesting lesson @tr7v8 . Glad you did it.

Watch out for the Catalina at the airshow. She's coming from her Duxford base for the show before going to Belgium and Paris for more.

Catalina related but also the sheer wonder of flying....
I've said this before but I'd highly recommend reading (avail on Kindle or dead tree) 'The Sky Beyond'. It's my favourite aviation book (apologies to @JAFO :mrgreen: )
The story of opening up routes Aus to S.America by the first trans Pacific flights. Sir Gordon Taylor was a pioneer and his books are purely and simply a love affair with flying and esp the Cat. I defy anyone to read it and not be there with him in the cockpit as he feels her ready to fly, or as he manoeuvres in flight. Some of it is, of course, hair raising (wait till you read about the TO with rockets attached!!) .
tr7v8, JAFO liked this
  • 1
  • 51
  • 52
  • 53
  • 54
  • 55
  • 143